Swarmwise

General
1

Many other coins have foundations or associations tied to them. I’ve read that SunnyKing have argued against such entities. It appeals to me. I guess the idea is something down the line, that which is not centralized can not be crushed as easily. This to me is the essence of decentralization and self-organization.

It is also clear to me there a formal organization is not necessarily needed for people sharing common goals to self-organize around these. This forum, reddit.com/r/peercoin and so forth and so on, facilitate information sharing.

I’m curious to know if this could be taken even further. Searching a little bit on the web I found this book written by one of the founders of the Pirate Party, Falkvinge: http://falkvinge.net/2013/02/14/swarmwise-the-tactical-manual-to-changing-the-world-chapter-one/

The following is some of key words from his book: public list (a list everyone can pick work items from), open (should be inclusive, as many people as possible should be able to participate), transparent (history and logs).

Reddit is really good for news I think. This forum is really good for dialog. I guess wikis serves the purpose of archiving knowledge. I do not think that any of them really works, when it comes to creating a public list with work items, one reason being that everyone can not create new sub-forums and we would not even want everyone to be able too.

I was thinking that perhaps a github project could be a good way of creating a public list of work items. I guess it could be a list of projects, ideas and so forth and so on. It would be transparent and people who disagree with the agenda could fork it and create their own.

It is extendable in the sense that work items that are ticked off, could turn into links to other github projects and what not. github is definitely not open though; only a few people in the world knows what a pull request is and so forth and so on. Maybe there is a more suitable technology out there?

What do you think? Perhaps this forum and reddit is enough? I do not know.

While on the topic of self-oraganizing oragnizations I got to share this one interview with you, it is really inspiring: http://blogs.valvesoftware.com/abrash/valve-how-i-got-here-what-its-like-and-what-im-doing-2/ or you can listen to this podcast about the same thing: http://www.econtalk.org/archives/_featuring/yanis_varoufaki/

2

[quote=“pillow, post:1, topic:2067”]Many other coins have foundations or associations tied to them. I’ve read that SunnyKing have argued against such entities. It appeals to me.

I guess the idea is something down the line, that which is not centralized can not be crushed as easily.

This to me is the essence of decentralization and self-organization.[/quote]

This needs to be re-read, and repeated. It a correct way of proceeding.

To re-enforce this point, watch this video from 02:10 to 02:45, about “taking out the leader”

www.youtube.com/watch?v=2QoNP5RhKnE

With a foundation, or leadership, they are instantly a centralized target that can be infiltrated. I don’t like talking about this stuff in general, so I’m stopping here.

(On a side note, I know someone is going to talk about checkpointing. The point is, those checkpoints can come from a decentralized point, from the creator of the coin. So it isn’t as centralized as people like to think. But that’s completely off topic).

3

Like you ideas about decentralisation and many in this community probably do. But we still don’t live in a perfect world. E.g this website and reddit are centralised and can be taken out with some effort (at least for some time). Exchanges can be taken out and developers can be taken out and in some countries the internet can be taken out. So we have some way to go and I think the real innovation of cryptocoins is not the coins but the concept of decentralisation taken to the next step. To some extent the concept builds on peer-to-peer technology used in filesharing.

In project management there are collaboration tools which do what you are after. Creating task lists, project members being assigned or picking them up, providing progress reports and finally ticking them off. Personally I’ve only worked with commercial ones in my work environment, but I have seen open source ones webbased which can be hosted in the same way as this forum. It needs more time to find the right product and eventually someone to operate it and pay the hosting costs (can be with advertisements if traffic is high). I’m even dreaming of a product where people can donate to tasks which needs to be done or can be tipped afterwards similar to peer4commit. Peer4task or Peer4job would be good to have Wouldn’t that be great?

I think this is one to dive into although we probably have to start with a very basic product and do some work to suit it to our needs. Keen in hearing thoughts of others.

4

Just an update on my previous post.

The software which I found was not very satisfactory or required huge changes to make it work for task management and tipping. The crowdsourcing software is usually very specific to a task and usually not open source and hosted by a commercial party. Hope we can all keep an eye open in this space if something useful pops up. But in the mean time I have been looking to something we already have!

Today Ben triggered me that we might be able to create some framework for tipping for tasks with peer4commit and github.
I just created a project on github and added a few tasks, a wiki with instructions and 3 example tasks testers can obtain tips for.
I used the issues to decribe the tasks and provide the instructions on how to obtain the tip (by adding your name and the description or link to the work done in to a file in the repo)

I have asked a few people to look at it, test it and how best to make it work and possibly more user friendly. For most of you it probably sounds complicated and I have to admit it is. So we might be able to work with proxies. With proxies other community members might create an account for you and execute the instruction on behalf of you while you still can get the tip by providing your email address.

Stay tuned, Peer4tasks is being tested :wink:

5

Cybnate:

Did you watch this video from 02:10 to 02:45, about “taking out the leader”

www.youtube.com/watch?v=2QoNP5RhKnE

Are you in agreement why Satoshi and Sunny King decided to hide their true identities as a result?

6

[quote=“ppcman, post:5, topic:2067”]Cybnate:

Did you watch this video from 02:10 to 02:45, about “taking out the leader”

www.youtube.com/watch?v=2QoNP5RhKnE

Are you in agreement why Satoshi and Sunny King decided to hide their true identities as a result?[/quote]
Yes, I can see why. The distributed systems have the ability to take away power from large organisations and governments. Most of them won’t like that and some countries will be very hostile towards that. I’m not a revolutionary, but I think that it is good to explore other ways of organising ourselves and still progressing as the current systems still have many flaws. That’s the main reason I’m here and supporting these developments as good as I can while having my full-time job. As a project manager I often change ways how people work, that is also why I’m quick to contribute to this. I might one day use it in my job and get things done in other ways than we can now.

7

[quote=“pillow, post:1, topic:2067”]Many other coins have foundations or associations tied to them. I’ve read that SunnyKing have argued against such entities. It appeals to me. I guess the idea is something down the line, that which is not centralized can not be crushed as easily. This to me is the essence of decentralization and self-organization.

It is also clear to me there a formal organization is not necessarily needed for people sharing common goals to self-organize around these. This forum, reddit.com/r/peercoin and so forth and so on, facilitate information sharing.

I’m curious to know if this could be taken even further. Searching a little bit on the web I found this book written by one of the founders of the Pirate Party, Falkvinge: http://falkvinge.net/2013/02/14/swarmwise-the-tactical-manual-to-changing-the-world-chapter-one/

The following is some of key words from his book: public list (a list everyone can pick work items from), open (should be inclusive, as many people as possible should be able to participate), transparent (history and logs).

Reddit is really good for news I think. This forum is really good for dialog. I guess wikis serves the purpose of archiving knowledge. I do not think that any of them really works, when it comes to creating a public list with work items, one reason being that everyone can not create new sub-forums and we would not even want everyone to be able too.

I was thinking that perhaps a github project could be a good way of creating a public list of work items. I guess it could be a list of projects, ideas and so forth and so on. It would be transparent and people who disagree with the agenda could fork it and create their own.

It is extendable in the sense that work items that are ticked off, could turn into links to other github projects and what not. github is definitely not open though; only a few people in the world knows what a pull request is and so forth and so on. Maybe there is a more suitable technology out there?

What do you think? Perhaps this forum and reddit is enough? I do not know.

While on the topic of self-oraganizing oragnizations I got to share this one interview with you, it is really inspiring: http://blogs.valvesoftware.com/abrash/valve-how-i-got-here-what-its-like-and-what-im-doing-2/ or you can listen to this podcast about the same thing: http://www.econtalk.org/archives/_featuring/yanis_varoufaki/[/quote]

Hello Pillow,

We are making decentralization, but we shall not make decentralization for decentralization. Actually, we like decentralization because it can solve some problems in the centralized world. But there are still some issues that cannot be solved by decentralization. Decentralization is not the God who can solve everything. So only decentralization and centralization work together would be the perfect solution.

For this topic, I suggest we should set up foundations or associations to help people understand Peercoin and gather resource for the development & implementation of Peercoin.

This is only my opinion. Thanks.

8

I’ve read this book. It explains Peercoin perfectly.

9

Yea, there’s a lot of good info in it. I encourage everyone to read it.