Should Peercoin be merged with Zerocoin?

Zerocoin reduces proof size by 98%, plans to release as altcoin

What is Zerocoin?

Zerocoin is a proposed extension to the Bitcoin payment network that adds anonymity to Bitcoin payments.

Yesterday, Matthew Green from Zerocoin project posted this to his tweet:

“We designed a new version of Zerocoin that reduces proof sizes by 98% and allows for direct anonymous payments that hide payment amount.”

“We’re going to release it as an alt-coin. It will take a few months to get it to that point. Bitcoin can do what it wants.”

“We need a few months to clean up the code. We plan to release the client and an alt-chain.”

If zerocoin becomes an alt coin, the protocol can still be incorporated into PPC right? Or no?

Yes. It can still be incorporated in PPC. From my understanding Zerocoin can be inplemented in any coin and it works like a currency on the side (but still a part of the protocol) that ensures privacy. Each Zerocoin will be backed by and gain value from some PPC in the blockchain, but you will not be able to tell wich. So with Zerocoin you can have direct anonymous payments that hide the payment amount. I’m not an expert, but I think this is how it works :slight_smile:

Bitcoin 2013 conference - Ian Miers - Zerocoin - A New Anonymous eCash Extension for Bitcoin

[quote=“sandakersmann, post:4, topic:965”]Bitcoin 2013 conference - Ian Miers - Zerocoin - A New Anonymous eCash Extension for Bitcoin[/quote]

Learned something new. Very interesting concept to get anonymity to the next level.
Would be interesting to add this to Peercoin. Would definitely emphasize the innovativity of Peercoin.

Innovation always carries risk, so I’m wondering what are the risks and what would need to be done to include it into the Peercoin client?
Or why shouldn’t we do it and let them run another alt-crypto to test the concept?

It would be great to see Zerocoin extension for Peercoin however if they made ‘compressed’ proof it’s probably closely tied to blockchain structure thus making this new version ~incompatible with current designs. So we probably have to wait until they release the new code to see if and how it can be incorporated. I think that what we can do now is to prepare strong OTC exchange ground for Percoin/Zerocoin, maybe by making some standard tools for eg. TierNolan’s cross-chain trading solution, more cheap and reliable escrows, etc. This kind of support should be beneficial for both coins.

I would love to see the merge happen. This would make Peercoin the perfect coin: Secure, not dependent on massive energy consumption, sane economic properties, and untraceable!

We should consider waiting for a Zerocoin altcoin. If said Zerocoin altcoin runs stable and has no security issues, then a merge with Peercoin should be discussed. But I am interested in a merge someday in the future.

Yes, I like the idea of including Zerocoin in Peercoin. This innovation could give us a push…

I think it’s worth considering, although you kind of have to wait until the Zerocoin people release their full implementation so you can really study it.

It probably isn’t a very popular opinion, but I’m not sure a fully anonymous currency is a good thing. Yes, it allows you to keep private things private. But it also makes it extremely easy to hide graft, bribery, political corruption and other things that are terribly corrosive to society. Having lived for several years in South America in an area with rampant corruption, far far worse than anything in the US or Europe, … I’m not sure the benefits of full anonymity outweigh the potential downside. I kind of like the middle ground of pseudo-anonymity that we have now.

Privacy makes it easier for bad people to do bad things, but you must also remember that a free society makes it easier for bad people to do bad things. We don’t want to end freedom…

I share your concerns.
But I think there are already numerous ways to do this in the current cryptocurrencyworld already, so that someone who wants to hide completely can do it.

The problem I see is that when you trade with some and buy e.g. a product with PPC then everybody you trade with can see how many Peercoins you have (with small effort). This is in my opinion a security risk for everybodyand this can endanger the success for PPC as a vault of value.

[quote=“Centaure, post:12, topic:965”]

The problem I see is that when you trade with some and buy e.g. a product with PPC then everybody you trade with can see how many Peercoins you have (with small effort). This is in my opinion a security risk for everybodyand this can endanger the success for PPC as a vault of value.[/quote]
Share your concerns regarding security risks. To mitigate this I would recommend to have a separate wallet where you secure the majority of your coins. Create one or more payment wallets for regular payments. Not watertight, but makes it all a little bit harder for people to guess.

Something like Zerocoin will fix this issue better, but I share the concerns with other posters that this technology needs to proof itself before adapting within Peercoin. Not too concerned about the downside of full anonymity. That can already be achieved if you really want, it just requires a bit more effort and some smart transactions. Won’t make anyone much wiser here. 8)

Andreas M. Antonopoulos and Adam Back on Zerocoin

Prof. Mattew Green | Johns Hopkins University | anonymous ZeroCash creator, alternative to Zerocoin

ZeroCash: ZeroCoin meets SCIPR-lab (Eli Ben-Sasson, February 2014)

I won’t say much, but this comes to me just like Etherium does.

Here is the link to that conversation

So my answer is no.

I posted this in the video on Youtube. Now mind you, I can EASILY be dead wrong… Just read my thoughts

I just feel if coins keep trying to hide everything who in the mainstream would want it? Forget full integration into everyday markets. (again I have no facts, just gut feeling)

I'm not sure I buy into 100% anonymity. It begs this question. If you want a coin to become mainstream does anyone think that retailers want this? Fraud would be technically untraceable . Up to society for regulation? If by society you mean Government, than yes. You might not be able to track coins to a person, but do you think for a moment that the IRS or the Government wouldn't seek out individually based US sites and just shut them down if they didn't "want" to follow regulations? And unless ZeroCash somehow breaks the mold, it's STILL a property, not a currency. Thus for the US it still falls under a regulation for taxation that is already in place. People try to avoid taxes -this country, as lousy as it can be, doesn't not run on good will. Who's going to pay those Policemen and Firefighters? Everyone is too busy trying not to pay taxes through all these anonymous systems. Realistically if people don't support their Country by chipping in something, what do you think will happen? Fix one problem, break a dozen other things. Cryptocurrency has virtual stockmarket potential and novelty. I haven't seen anyone provide anything sustainable for "society" as they all try to avoid one thing, society.

I truly don’t expect anyone to agree with me, but transparency and blacked out windows comes to mind. Which is it?

From my understanding will ZeroCoin and ZeroCash work along side the blockchain. So if you would like full transparency you can choose that in the blockchain or if you would like some privacy you can use ZeroCoin. Charities and government are cases where full transparency will make sense. Since everyone are using cash and credit cards today I don’t think that the mainstream care if they share their transactions with the bank or preserve their privacy with cash. The problem with crypto is that you are sharing your transactions with everyone since the blockchain is public. Would you like your neighbours and family to know every transaction you have ever made? Might be hard in the future to suprise someone with a christmas present if we don’t ensure privacy in crypto.