Multipool autopayout in PPC

[quote=“IndigoMan, post:20, topic:2281”][…]
PLease enter your SHA256 (BTC, PPC) hashing power in Ghash/s: .023
PLease enter your SCRYPT (LTC) hashing power in Mhash/s: .07
[…][/quote]

It’s good to see that you go for a script that does the hard work of repeatedly calculating the most efficient way.
But the results of your script are a bit of comparing apples and oranges.
No wonder that LTC is the winner, because the relative hash rate for LTC is much higher than the hash rate for BTC (and I have to ask if there’s a comma error at the scrypt hash rate…); 23 MH/s for SHA256 is close to nothing and 70 kh/s for scrypt is not much, but in relation to the SHA256 hash rate way above!

Assuming a GPU that does the scrypt hashing I wonder why it is only 0.07 MH/s or 70 kh/s. I’d have expected something between 320 kh/s (Radeon5850) and 800 kh/s (Radeon R9 280).
With these GPUs you could have approximately the same number values for SHA256 hashing but with measurement unit MH/s (but for sure GPU mining SHA256 makes no economical sense).

Speaking of economics…
To put this in a fair economical relation, you need to take the energy that is needed by the mining device into consideration to find out whether it makes more sense to simply buy PPCs instead of mining them (or anything else to trade it for them). You don’t want to waste more money for paying your electricity bill than you’d have to pay for purchasing the same amount of PPC at an exchange, right?

Currently ASICs for mining BTCs to trade them for PPC seems to be fine.
And mining LTCs with GPUs to trade them for PPC should be fine, too.
…that will change. I’m excited about your approach to assist the decision what to do by a script! :slight_smile:

[quote=“masterOfDisaster, post:21, topic:2281”][quote=“IndigoMan, post:20, topic:2281”][…]
PLease enter your SHA256 (BTC, PPC) hashing power in Ghash/s: .023
PLease enter your SCRYPT (LTC) hashing power in Mhash/s: .07
[…][/quote]

It’s good to see that you go for a script that does the hard work of repeatedly calculating the most efficient way.
But the results of your script are a bit of comparing apples and oranges.
No wonder that LTC is the winner, because the relative hash rate for LTC is much higher than the hash rate for BTC (and I have to ask if there’s a comma error at the scrypt hash rate…); 23 MH/s for SHA256 is close to nothing and 70 kh/s for scrypt is not much, but in relation to the SHA256 hash rate way above!

Assuming a GPU that does the scrypt hashing I wonder why it is only 0.07 MH/s or 70 kh/s. I’d have expected something between 320 kh/s (Radeon5850) and 800 kh/s (Radeon R9 280).
With these GPUs you could have approximately the same number values for SHA256 hashing but with measurement unit MH/s (but for sure GPU mining SHA256 makes no economical sense).

Speaking of economics…
To put this in a fair economical relation, you need to take the energy that is needed by the mining device into consideration to find out whether it makes more sense to simply buy PPCs instead of mining them (or anything else to trade it for them). You don’t want to waste more money for paying your electricity bill than you’d have to pay for purchasing the same amount of PPC at an exchange, right?

Currently ASICs for mining BTCs to trade them for PPC seems to be fine.
And mining LTCs with GPUs to trade them for PPC should be fine, too.
…that will change. I’m excited about your approach to assist the decision what to do by a script! :)[/quote]

the hash rates are extremely low compared to miners lol … these numbers are for my Nvidia GT 640 … i’m not really a miner but my computers are pretty much on 24/7 anyways for work stuff :slight_smile: … but I completely understand and fully appreciate the argument of this hashing power not being significant even for the a occasional miner. But that’s precisly the reason why i wanted to do it the most efficient way and also to give a more informed decision on what to mine for those without ASICs … not everyone has them you know but every has a gpu and cpu :wink: … When it comes to energy costs, my bill is included in the rent which i find incredibly relieving haha :smiley:

I’d very much be happy to input your numbers for you if you want and give you the results. I’m curious to how this would fair with real miners hashing powers. Post your hashing powers for the 2 algorithms and i’ll run the test for ya :slight_smile:

I have either a triple Radeon5850 rig for mining scrypt that runs underclocked and undervolted at roughly 940 kh/s and 400 watts.
Or a 600 Gh/s miner for SHA256 at 600 watts.
Please tell me which device provides me with cheaper PPC according to your script (especially cheaper than buying them at an exchange assuming a price of 0.35 USD/kWh) :wink:

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[quote=“masterOfDisaster, post:23, topic:2281”]I have either a triple Radeon5850 rig for mining scrypt that runs underclocked and undervolted at roughly 940 kh/s and 400 watts.
Or a 600 Gh/s miner for SHA256 at 600 watts.
Please tell me which device provides me with cheaper PPC according to your script (especially cheaper than buying them at an exchange assuming a price of 0.35 USD/kWh) :wink:

sent by Tapatalk[/quote]

The script i’m running currently doesn’t really take into account electrical fees or comparison between mining and buying but that’s a good idea for another script. My current script is designed to tell me what coin to mine to produce PPC most efficiently based on the hashing power of my system. Having said that, we can determine what coin is best for you to mine to get PPC and which of these devices would produce you more PPC then you can do the math regarding whether those PPC’s generated would be worth mining or not :). For that i’d need your hashing powers for your devices on both algorithms and if you want as well with the scrypt-n algorithm as i’m working on adding vertcoin to the choices as well. Here is what i’d need:

Radeon5850

  • SHA265 hashing power
  • scrypt hashing power
  • scrypt-n hashing power (optional)

and I’m assuming the 600 gh/s is an sha265 ASIC miner that won’t be used for other algorithms at all? if not please provide the device’s hashing powers for the other algorithms and we’ll see what coin is best for you to mine at the current state of the market and what which device would yeild you more PPC .

You’re right about the ASIC. It is 600 Gh/s pure SHA256.
I expect either 0.044 BTC per day or 11.8 PPC per day (or roughly 14 PPC per dayby trading the BTC for PPC).
…but I’m too lazy to calculate that frequently; I do it rather if I recognize some major difference to the last calculation.
What are your script’s results?

The 3x5850 make 940 kh/s scrypt or 1050 MH/s SHA256.

Thank you in advance for the calculation!

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[quote=“masterOfDisaster, post:25, topic:2281”]You’re right about the ASIC. It is 600 Gh/s pure SHA256.
I expect either 0.044 BTC per day or 11.8 PPC per day (or roughly 14 PPC per dayby trading the BTC for PPC).
…but I’m too lazy to calculate that frequently; I do it rather if I recognize some major difference to the last calculation.
What are your script’s results?

The 3x5850 make 940 kh/s scrypt or 1050 MH/s SHA256.

Thank you in advance for the calculation!

sent by Tapatalk[/quote]

I’ve added the VTC and Multipool multiport calculations but you can ignore them if you want cause they invlove more activity cause you’d need to sell VTC to BTC then buy PPC and in the case of multipool you’d have to sell several different currencies to get BTC then buy PPC so more work is involved. I just added them for my own reference. Anyways, Based on the numbers you gave, this is the result for the two devices:

Radeon5850 rig

PLease enter your SHA256 (BTC, PPC) hashing power in Ghash/s: 1.05
PLease enter your SCRYPT (LTC) hashing power in Mhash/s: .94
PLease enter your SCRYPT-N (VTC) hashing power in Mhash/s: .00001
//////////////////2014-04-27 14:16:08.117011/////////////////////
/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
******************** RATES ********************
*********** PPC/BTC = 0.00472696 **************
*********** PPC/LTC = 0.20648498 **************


*********** VTC/BTC = 0.00198731 **************


Mining PPC : 0.01192826669207346603937872530 PPC / day
Mining BTC : 0.01600729156449821505382883604 PPC / day
Mining LTC : 0.7568646592658628901830381542 PPC / day
Mining VTC : 0.00001700535515363682384227185949 PPC / day
MultiPool SHA256: 0.01736384443188751406219485330 PPC / day
MultiPool SCRYPT: 0.7361957974180868470883645286 PPC / day


****************** WINNER ***************
****************** LTC ***************


/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

For the other device :

PLease enter your SHA256 (BTC, PPC) hashing power in Ghash/s: 600
PLease enter your SCRYPT (LTC) hashing power in Mhash/s: .0000001
PLease enter your SCRYPT-N (VTC) hashing power in Mhash/s: .000001
//////////////////2014-04-27 14:18:51.710877/////////////////////
/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
******************** RATES ********************
*********** PPC/BTC = 0.00476463 **************
*********** PPC/LTC = 0.20648498 **************


*********** VTC/BTC = 0.00198731 **************


Mining PPC : 6.816152395470552022502128746 PPC / day
Mining BTC : 9.074705777929748720508863356 PPC / day
Mining LTC : ~0 PPC / day
Mining VTC : ~0 PPC / day
MultiPool SHA256: 9.843750190856372897790594443 PPC / day
MultiPool SCRYPT: ~0 PPC / day


****************** WINNER ***************
****************** MultiPool SHA256 ***************


/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

I hope these helps. Jut to be clear that this is not a financial advice in any way. Keep in mind that create this script within the last 24 hours so not tested long term therefore i encourage you to double check the numbers and see if they’re correct or not. Another important point, i’ve designed this script to be able to monitor the changes as i’m mining so i can switch when another avenue becomes more profitable. This script does not account for long term halving of rewards and increase of difficulty in it’s profitability prediction nor does it take into consideration any fees incurred in exchange or transactions. This is in its current form a tool to help me make an informed decision of what to mine to make the most PPC on my devices.

Best of luck on your investment and may the odds be ever in your favor :slight_smile:

The script seems to do fine. My expectations were wrong, though. The numbers of PPC and BTC I expected from my ASIC miner were based on a calculation with 1 TH/s.
Unfortunately my miner is slower :slight_smile:

The numbers for the ASIC miner are close to 60% of what I’d expect, so they pass not only the plausibilty check, but seem to be quite correct as well!
And it is quite obvious that it’s more efficient to mine an scrypt coin (until more scryt ASICS arrive…) with a GPU than to mine BTC.
Not bad, not bad…
And now you know why my GPU rig is off and my ASIC mines BTC :wink:
…this way I have to calculate with roughly 5 USD electricity costs per day (which could buy me 2.x PPC), but receive more than 8 PPC per day by trading the mined BTC for PPC.
Hooray!

Thanks for verifying what I’ve calculated :wink:

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I’d love to get a copy of that script if you’re still offering. Either by PM or posting here, either or…

I’m always wanting to find the best way to mine other coins to buy PPC…

good stuff, only thing i want to mention, there are other algorithms than sha and scrypt, which protoshares and the likes use, or primecoin, metiscoin, probably a bit complicated to take that into account tho, because different miners for different gpus and different power consumptions etc etc, but great stuff anyway

edit: actually they are comparing NRS and XPM profitability now: "nrs 0.005684 BTC / day / per Mhs xpm 0.0087 BTC / day / per Mhs "

[quote=“masterOfDisaster, post:27, topic:2281”]The script seems to do fine. My expectations were wrong, though. The numbers of PPC and BTC I expected from my ASIC miner were based on a calculation with 1 TH/s.
Unfortunately my miner is slower :slight_smile:

The numbers for the ASIC miner are close to 60% of what I’d expect, so they pass not only the plausibilty check, but seem to be quite correct as well!
And it is quite obvious that it’s more efficient to mine an scrypt coin (until more scryt ASICS arrive…) with a GPU than to mine BTC.
Not bad, not bad…
And now you know why my GPU rig is off and my ASIC mines BTC :wink:
…this way I have to calculate with roughly 5 USD electricity costs per day (which could buy me 2.x PPC), but receive more than 8 PPC per day by trading the mined BTC for PPC.
Hooray!

Thanks for verifying what I’ve calculated :wink:

sent by Tapatalk[/quote]

Glad to hear it was of help :slight_smile: … It’s better to keep an eye on it though cause profitablity is changing over time. That’s why i’m creating this monitoring script after all.

[quote=“ppcman, post:28, topic:2281”]I’d love to get a copy of that script if you’re still offering. Either by PM or posting here, either or…

I’m always wanting to find the best way to mine other coins to buy PPC…[/quote]

It’s still prototype. Though functional and the math is correct, it’s poorly coded and could be better optimized and prepared to be used as a universal script for comparing profitablity for any coin not just PPC. I’m planning on cleaning it up and posting the source maybe on github. Keep an eye for a post on it. I’m hoping to have time the next couple of weeks to try and integrate it to make auto transactions as well or maybe make it on the side as so the switching between BTC, LTC, and PPC is done automatically. I’m a lazy so we’ll see what happens.

[quote=“irritant, post:29, topic:2281”]good stuff, only thing i want to mention, there are other algorithms than sha and scrypt, which protoshares and the likes use, or primecoin, metiscoin, probably a bit complicated to take that into account tho, because different miners for different gpus and different power consumptions etc etc, but great stuff anyway

edit: actually they are comparing NRS and XPM profitability now: "nrs 0.005684 BTC / day / per Mhs xpm 0.0087 BTC / day / per Mhs " [/quote]

I wanted to add Primecoin to the script but i didn’t feel it was on par with the other coins at the moment in terms of PPC profitability. I hope to have more time and will look integrating it as well.

I’ve updated the script today to include comparison with the SCRYPT-N algorthim used in Vertcoin… It looks like vertcoin is what i’ll be mining these days. Here is the analysis based on my hashing power:

PLease enter your SHA256 (BTC, PPC) hashing power in Ghash/s: .023
PLease enter your SCRYPT (LTC) hashing power in Mhash/s: .07
PLease enter your SCRYPT-N (VTC) hashing power in Mhash/s: .035
//////////////////2014-04-27 16:38:05.308958/////////////////////
/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
******************** RATES ********************
*********** PPC/BTC = 0.00470492 **************
*********** PPC/LTC = 0.20505416 **************


*********** VTC/BTC = 0.00196041 **************


Mining PPC : 0.0002605987613437219933135198134 PPC / day
Mining BTC : 0.0003522784496463420663413892085 PPC / day
Mining LTC : 0.05675554454961109200215262938 PPC / day
Mining VTC : 0.06445442855120058473699789843 PPC / day
MultiPool SHA256: 0.0003821326157344439373304891246 PPC / day
MultiPool SCRYPT: 0.05507990776414902371579071504 PPC / day


****************** WINNER ***************
****************** VTC ***************


/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

I’ll be mining VTC , selling it for BTC, and buying PPC

For GPU miners, take a look at http://www.whattomine.com/

This single thing is 50% of what I’m concerned about. The 0.01 transaction fee while Peercoin is trading at around $2.15 USD isn’t a barrier, and people will happily transact at these levels, inflating our blockchain.

The next thing is 50% of what I’m concerned about. People mining on a multipool to earn Peercoin and dumping it for Bitcoin “today” since Peercoin is at $2.15 USD

Both of these concerns will probably be unfounded in 6 to 12 months from now. But this is a real concern at this precise moment.

That’s why I’m shying away from Peercoin paid multipools to mine-and-dump alternate coins.[/quote]

I take the first of your concerns serious and I share it. But I think this could be one of the prices Peercoin has to pay to get some broader acceptance (Peercoin is useless if is not used :wink: ). Just like courting payment providers: that will put some extra transactions to the block chain once it has gained some speed.
And even great advances like Peershares will cause some more transactions - hopefully!
What I’m trying so say is: even if some concepts cause transactions that need to be put into the block chain, it could be for some good.
Or with tongue-on-cheek: we shouldn’t be afraid to use the block chain for storing transactions :wink:

Regarding your second concern: currently it is more efficient to mine BTC and dump it for PPC. That will change if the BTC diff increases faster than the PPC reward gets diminished by a rising PPC PoW diff or if the PPC prices rises quite a bit.
I’m confident that the market will even this out.
If it is more efficient to mine BTC and trade it for PPC, people will do that and create demand for PPC. That drives the price up until it is evenly efficient (or even more efficient) to mine PPC directly.
Due to the coinbase reward structure of mining PPC, this will diminish the returns for mining PPC, miners switch back to BTC, trade the BTC for PPC and so forth.

In short: I trust the design of PPC (tx fee structure, coinbase reward formula, PoS reward etc.).
Let the market do its part.
I advocate Peershares, I advocate payment provider adoption and I advocate multipool approaches with PPC payout.
I simply consider everything that creates a real world use for PPC good.
Without a real world use Peercoin is only an end in itself.
…just my 0.02 PPC

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Looks like NXT had the same idea and jumping on the wagon. a NXT multipool was created: http://www.cryptoarticles.com/crypto-news/2014/4/27/nxt-multipool-open-now-hashrateorg

Are we missing an opportunity ?

[quote=“IndigoMan, post:33, topic:2281”]Looks like NXT had the same idea and jumping on the wagon. a NXT multipool was created: http://www.cryptoarticles.com/crypto-news/2014/4/27/nxt-multipool-open-now-hashrateorg

Are we missing an opportunity ?[/quote]

nah, just confirmation it is a good idea :wink:

I second irritants point of view. I don’t see an opportunity that is in danger to get missed. But I recognize that this is an idea that seems to offer some potential.

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i just realized you cant convert (all) alts straight to PPC, have to change to BTC first…

Indeed… but it can be easily programmed to switch to btc or ltc then to ppc. At least until there is enough pressure on exchanges to add PPC pairs but that will take a long time. On the other hand, the NXT asset exchange is releasing in 10 days. That would be a decentralized exchange of some sort. Maybe when it’s stable enough the multipool can do its exchanges through a decentralized exchange? there are several options and routes to go about this but that main point is to recognize the benefit we would get from this.

One thing … Hashco.ws have added an option for a a payout coin so you can choose which coin you’d like to be paid out in. I’ve tried contacting them to add PPC but haven’t heard back. Maybe a stronger pressure from the peercoin community would help to get them noticing the desire for PPC as payout ? (A VOLUNPEER task maybe ? :slight_smile: )