The majority of the Peercoin community is against the idea of a foundation.[/quote]
DigiX could present the outline and start a poll. Since there has never been a detailed description of what a peercoin foundation will do, the forum opinion has been based on Bitcoin Foundation model, which I guess doesn’t have to be the case.
I agree with the previous statement. We should start a new pool. On top of that the “Peercoin community” has changed, a lot of people left and a lot of new people joined.
There are, at least, two ways of doing it.
Bitcoin Foundation ( https://bitcoinfoundation.org )
A centralized entity where you pay money to become a member. Historically poor transparency and some shady figures at the top, have contributed to a lot of bad sentiment towards the foundation.
Bitcoin Association ( http://bitcoinassociation.org )
Promotes decentralization. There are actually many ( Bitcoin - Wikirating and http://www.global-bitcoin-alliance.org ) Bitcoin Associations which are separate entities.
I think that one could think of this forum as a type of Peercoin Association. Sooner or later, I think several Peercoin Association’s will be necessary. Each one will create meetups, reach out to people and provide educational material. The sub forum here “Peercoin / Primecoin Local” proves the point that there is value to bringing people from the same country together.
There are, at least, two ways of doing it.
Bitcoin Foundation ( https://bitcoinfoundation.org )
A centralized entity where you pay money to become a member. Historically poor transparency and some shady figures at the top, have contributed to a lot of bad sentiment towards the foundation.
Bitcoin Association ( http://bitcoinassociation.org )
Promotes decentralization. There are actually many ( Bitcoin - Wikirating and http://www.global-bitcoin-alliance.org ) Bitcoin Associations which are separate entities.
I think that one could think of this forum as a type of Peercoin Association. Sooner or later, I think several Peercoin Association’s will be necessary. Each one will create meetups, reach out to people and provide educational material. The sub forum here “Peercoin / Primecoin Local” proves the point that there is value to bringing people from the same country together.[/quote]
I think an association could possibly work. What wouldn’t work is someone playing director, sitting on a stack of cash, not consulting the community and doing things according to their own agenda. Everything where the community is heavily involved and motivated and doesn’t have a huge overhead in costs has my seal for what it is worth. I’m only wondering whether it solves the problem that we actually need people do some jobs instead of talking how to do them and setting up structures. I think we have adequate decentralised funds and with a bit effort we could work with other fund keepers to get things done. We had two proposals as an example (the peercoin.net website refurbishment and a cold storage video). We can organise it (charter is in place for marketing at least), we have adequate funds but we don’t have enough people submitting proposals to do things and get paid for it. No foundation or association is going to change that in my opinion.
There are, at least, two ways of doing it.
Bitcoin Foundation ( https://bitcoinfoundation.org )
A centralized entity where you pay money to become a member. Historically poor transparency and some shady figures at the top, have contributed to a lot of bad sentiment towards the foundation.
Bitcoin Association ( http://bitcoinassociation.org )
Promotes decentralization. There are actually many ( Bitcoin - Wikirating and http://www.global-bitcoin-alliance.org ) Bitcoin Associations which are separate entities.
I think that one could think of this forum as a type of Peercoin Association. Sooner or later, I think several Peercoin Association’s will be necessary. Each one will create meetups, reach out to people and provide educational material. The sub forum here “Peercoin / Primecoin Local” proves the point that there is value to bringing people from the same country together.[/quote]
Shall we start a poll?
Better to have a list of what the “foundation” and an “association” do or the vote won’t have much meaning.
Better to have a list of what the “foundation” and an “association” do or the vote won’t have much meaning.[/quote]
I agree.
“Foundation” is such a loaded word.
Due to the mismanagement of the Bitcoin Foundation, the word has been diluted.
Which is sad since it has so much potential if done correctly.
Anyway, thank you for the feedback regarding my question.
I appreciated it.
I am wondering how long will take to further develop and solve this Marketing issue.
…takes time to let people know and understand new things, to make them aquainted to new concepts, to help them being confident and able to distinguish something valid and qualitatively superior, especially when many shining mirrors and attractive/distractive subproducts and scams are day by day more and more enviromentally invasive and pervasively influencing unprepared/unaware potential new comers…
Humans are not artificial machines, the majority have not trained abilities to discern whats the best and the worse when comes to something new, they act in faith and there is when they get involved into every sort of waste. Humans need time.
Being late or “procrastinating”, when it comes to the dissemination of knowledge on “popular level”, is to undervalue the most precious asset we have NOW: time!
“Procrastinating” is also expressed in a different form: self-overestimation. Overestimation in our case can be given by investors involved and by “quality and the genius involved in the engineering of peercoin”. This approach turns out too often into self-immolating for a lost cause… I’d like to remind (I often remind it myself) that The United States Patent and Trademark Office is packed with revolutionary ideas which never took off. If only the masses knew enough about those…!
Waiting for technological emprovements and further fantastic developments, to be unavoidably recognized by the market and the people, is an overestimation of Peercoin and a waste of effective enormous conveyable energy, dissipated into global ignorance. We the community have to help persons to see and show them the reasonings, we have to enlight about the new potential upcoming reality. Who gets there first recives minds and hearts attention especially when is not missidirection and for a very long time, when instead is misdirection to visit them first, obviously is going to be quite hard to correct those “ideologies” (we know how powerful is the Network Effect especially the demagogical one).
THIS is the problem we are facing. Dissemination of knowledge on big scale is our FIRST thing to do now, no time left. Comparing Bitcoin development timiline with peercoin and its network effect has a fundamental flaw: times have changed, social networking power is developing quiker then ever and is now much faster and stronger than 2009, there were not the same amount of constant advertised missonceptions and sharks/scammers crypto potentiality concious manipulating public into “nothing”, and last but not last the whole surrounding crypto conceptual structure was totally lacking, nowadays that structure is in place and full engines working… the list could go on and on…
We are well aware of all this, the development of Nubits has a wonderful part in the Peercoin structure, yet we are more or less the same people working around here… how do we expect new people to see learn and join if we dont let them know? The fact Peercoin was #3 on Coinmarketcap for months ago…? Some ““nonexistent”” random past important media reports? The blog announcements? An exploding technological SK breackthrough which would only end up in a speculation pump?
Dear fellow members, we are a fantastic community made of educated people, willing souls humble enough to learn both from our “mistakes” and those of others (like scams perpetraded to entire communities, past full network fails and historical amazing technology projects ended into a passive semiconcious oblivion). This is a community reinventing new paths to get along with one another, we are honest and have the moral and ethical courage to say things the way we think should be. I am sure my intervention will not be misunderstood nor interpreted as a provocation but as a honest 365 days meditated truth that must be reminded.
Nothing of what I wrote is unknown to us, thats why I try not to forget that Jiminy Cricket always repeated obvious known simple truths…
Please let us give ppcman proposal (yes secrecy is important in marketing, at serious levels intelligence teams are formed to formulate in full secrecy plans of action, timing and strategy, still we are an open transparent community, and we gotta find a way out, also about certainty of not being “scammed”, missperceived etc… I am sure you ppcman have large creativity to solve this too 
) or the PPC Marketing issue itself a definitive active shape as soon as possible, Education takes time and TIME to EDUCATE is NOW not tomorrow!
I think education might be a crucial part of Peercoin’s future success.
While I’m not able to create a suitable agenda for Peercoin marketing I can think of the drawbacks not doing some marketing for Peercoin.
To make it clear right from the beginning:
I’m not talking about “pumping style” marketing.
In my opinion the marketing that Peercoin needs desperately is of the type that brings the attention of people to Peercoin for whose business, ideas, concepts, implementations Peercoin can contribute, can even be better suited than other block chain based solutions.
This sounds very general and indeed it is.
I can’t be more precisely because I don’t know better.
I have neither dreamt of Peershares nor of Nu before they were built upon Peercoin.
Jordan Lee knew about Peercoin.
It is the “future Jordan Lees” we need to educate.
No knowing where they can be found we need to reach out to those people interested in crypto coins who don’t fully understand Peercoin because amongst them there are the most “future Jordan Lees” that will be.
When I first read about Peercoin I underestimated it. That’s what happens often.
That’s what needs to be targeted by marketing.
We don’t want to talk people into using Peercoin for whom Peercoin isn’t ideal.
But we should try to help people recognize and understand Peercoin for whom Peercoin is better suited than anything else.
…and the “future Jordan Lees” are not the only ones that can profit from that education. But as the marketing won’t be that focussed, a lot of people will profit.
They will profit from not underestimating Peercoin and choosing it when it suits the needs better than other things.
…but that’a only my opinion
We need to make sure that we reach out to those people who come to crypto to invest a few percent of their savings for at least a decade. Not for the quick buck.
History of coins will become more important.
We definitely need an additional timer on peercoin.net that counts up the time since the launch of Peercoin in August 2012. This timer needs to be the fourth one next to price, marketcap and number of coins.
[quote=“Peerkaizen, post:68, topic:3178”]Who gets there first recives minds and hearts attention especially when is not missidirection and for a very long time, when instead is misdirection to visit them first, obviously is going to be quite hard to correct those “ideologies” (we know how powerful is the Network Effect especially the demagogical one).
THIS is the problem we are facing. Dissemination of knowledge on big scale is our FIRST thing to do now, no time left.[/quote]
Excellent post peerkaizen. I also agree that currently peercoin needs now is “be there”, to sprinkle info bits at many places. “Eighty percent of life is showing up.” The inteligent people who can do research themselves have already found peercoin.
I’ve been away for a few days, only to come back, and see the recent posts had this thread going with multiple replies.
I smiled ear-to-ear instantly.
The community has acknowledged the need, it is just a matter of figuring it out. Individually we all knew Peercoin suffers price wise, more from marketing than it does from technology imperfections.
Quite simply, Peercoin is the sleeping giant in the room.
I hope we keep talking about this, because it’s one issue that shouldn’t rest until we’ve solved it.
Remember the cold-minting discussion? Lucky for us, and those involved, it came to fruit.
Keep talking about our marketing direction in the grand scheme of things, and we’ll get there.
So while I’m here I’ll give my 2 cents about something in regard to DigiX’s graphic of the umbrella carrying guy.
My first instinct when I see that oval graphic, is:
“Hey, here’s a detailed image, that some one spent a lot of time on. Very nice”
Then my next instinct is that it’s like a the cover of a fiction novel. A fairy tale, Alice in Wonderland, something not to be taken seriously. Make-believe fiction. A children’s story
All of those are the wrong keywords to explain the importance and integrity of Peercoin.
With regard to a foundation vs an association vs a marketing director
Let me explain the differences as I see them:
Foundation - built from founders. The stronghold behind the coin. The “base” of where a coin was created. The official party that can decide it’s direction. Voting board members decide which direction Peercoin goes, irregardless of public consensus. Sunny King is the creator, and he still may have hidden agendas as to where he sees this going long term. He welcomes community participation, but he has blatantly said, he doesn’t agree with a foundation which is basically a community take over for the direction of how a coin is developed and where it goes.
Association - associations are friendly. They are public supporters. These people are happy to announce they’re associated with Peercoin, they support its development. The support either both financial and socially, or just financially, or just socially. Either way it’s like a fan club of sorts, without deciding its direction.
Marketing Director - This has been seen a little more negative than it needs to be. What it should be is a publicly sanctioned office of some one publicly elected to be a decision maker on certain issues when the community is unable to reach a consensus. …Or if time is of the essence to reach a community consensus, and we hit a fork in the road where “look, we need to decide now.”
This type of situation happens quite fast. Some thing happens in the media, and they need a quote before they go to press in 3 hours. An interviewer is requested for next Friday, and every one is shrugging shoulders at who is best to be there. A marketing director is in charge of coordinating as many resources a possible, and be trusted with that position on the community’s behalf.
While we float in the rough seas without a definitive marketing direction of some sort, we become exactly that, a lost boat at sea in the rough waters being smashed by the waves over time.
I, myself, have only begun to own enough peercoin to consider donating my time to this task unofficially. As more donations come in to my signature advertised PPC address, the better chance I have of just running with it without official payment, and getting some thing done.
This is why I proposed it be a paid position for 6 months for 35,000 PPC with a 15,000 PPC expense budget.
If you consider how many PPC are in existence, and who the richlist could be, that’s a very reasonable number to try this, and see the results.
I put my reputation on the line, hoping others would do the same.
But yes, please keep talking about this subject until we reach a solution.
[quote=“ppcman, post:72, topic:3178”]So while I’m here I’ll give my 2 cents about something in regard to DigiX’s graphic of the umbrella carrying guy.
My first instinct when I see that oval graphic, is:
“Hey, here’s a detailed image, that some one spent a lot of time on. Very nice”
Then my next instinct is that it’s like a the cover of a fiction novel. A fairy tale, Alice in Wonderland, something not to be taken seriously. Make-believe fiction. A children’s story
All of those are the wrong keywords to explain the importance and integrity of Peercoin.[/quote]
I hope you are aware that the crypto art was made by Nina Yankovich for the Crypto Art site. [LINK] According to the site itself, she is famous for illustrating “Twisted Fairy Tale series that is comprised of dark humor and beautiful scenery.” [LINK] I cited the source on the image itself.
There are various reasons why I decided to use it. First one being is that a handful of people have taken a liking to it after being circulated on the web for quite some time now. [LINK] So I decided to use it on my conclusion page. Since in the tech startup world, your conclusion page should have a contact information and a logo of your company. Instead of using the Peercoin logo, I decided to humanize Peercoin so that people could relate to it. I believe the crypto art described Peercoin in a good way, an environmentally friendly guy who looks cordial. It was not my intention to dilute the brand to a “make-believe fiction” that you are suggesting.
If you are targeting me just because you think I’ll try to take your “Marketing Director” position, think again. I have no interest in taking anyone’s position. I came here to offer help for a technology I respect and care about.
I’m not targeting you. I’m simply mentioning how I feel about the image. I like the image if it’s not going to constantly be the way peercoin is represented. I like as a meme that isn’t used often. But that’s just me. 99% of everyone else can disagree with me. It’s not a big deal. I just felt I needed to air how I felt.
There’s a lot of lurkers on these forums that simply don’t post. They may feel the same way. I don’t know. If you know me, I’m not afraid of controversy or publicly stating how I feel. 
So I felt the need to say what I did, and it in no way was meant to target anyone.
As far as my marketing director position, let’s clear a few things up.
– Right now, there is no marketing director position yet.
– I’m trying to get other people to see the need for it, and that’s it
– I titled this post “Example Proposal” for a reason. The proposal was used as an EXAMPLE. It’s not a real proposal unless people think it’s good enough and I get encouraged to follow through with it. That takes support, backing, and people asking me to do it.
In no way do I want this to turn into some dramatic negative campaign against people. That’s just stupid. If I see some one give a better proposal, I’ll get behind that person and encourage them. I don’t have feelings of grandeur like that… I’m just one person, who recognized a need and spoke up about it.
Excellent! Thanks, it is appreciated. My only recommendation is that if some one doesn’t agree with you on one specific thing (like a graphic), don’t take it as if they are “targeting” you. I’ve always encouraged people to be open about how they feel and I demonstrate it by doing exactly that…
People disagree with me all the time. I never think they are targeting me.
[quote=“ppcman, post:74, topic:3178”]Excellent! Thanks, it is appreciated. My only recommendation is that if some one doesn’t agree with you on one specific thing (like a graphic), don’t take it as if they are “targeting” you. I’ve always encouraged people to be open about how they feel and I demonstrate it by doing exactly that… 
People disagree with me all the time. I never think they are targeting me. :)[/quote]
Forgive me for my previous post. I didn’t mean to come off like that. I wasn’t aware of how you are. But, I should have been more composed. Once again sorry.
Hey, no problem… Glad we talked it out.
BuMp
No need for drama when we need to deal with bigger things.
@ppcman, I just initiated the re-election process for the Marketing Fund as that was due according to its charter.
Please vote here: http://www.peercointalk.org/index.php?topic=3783
However I hoped on a reply from you on my invitation earlier in the thread.
Anyway, I still hope that PPCman and others with good ideas (and I have seen a few in this thread) start submitting proposals and using the fund as per the charter and not getting lost in persuing an idea just for the sake of it. There are many ways to get to Rome.
For example @peerchemist just submitted a simple but interesting proposal for the Marketing Fund. Please have a look and consider whether you would vote for this during the discussion which pre-ambles the voting. http://www.peercointalk.org/index.php?topic=3780.0
I was hoping my previous posts could elude to my position without stating it in an ugly and obvious way.
But I do you owe you an explanation if you’re still confused, so here it is:
I want Peercoin’s price to drop further so I can afford to buy in with my limited funds, and join the rest of the people holding +5000 in coins before I roll up my sleeves and start promoting Peercoin full time.
So taking care of the marketing fund would be a conflict of interest at this point, because promoting peercoin would work against me if the price starts increasing rapidly and I’m left out with a very tiny bag of coins to reward myself with.
People keep asking me “why don’t you just promote Peercoin if that’s what you want to do? PPCman, volunteer to take care of the marketing fund that already exists. If you want, do this, do that…”
I’m somewhat broke people, and I own very little coins. If Peercoin goes to $10, I’d have $4000 worth of coins. At best I could take week’s holiday and be broke again.
It’ll continue to offer up ideas because some times I can’t resist.
I was getting excited when we hit 28 cents a Peercoin, I started looking for things around the house to sell. Then we’re back up to 32 cents it’s becoming less attractive for my individual position when that happened.
ppcman as a person wants a lower peercoin price, so while other people are selling, he can buy. Once I have enough, I’ll stop talking about it, and get to work.
If it goes to 10 cents temporarily, I’d really be happy.
It’s early yet. The only people concerned about the price are people interested in selling or daytrading. People interested in buying and keeping Peercoin to ride the upcoming wave should be like me — enjoying these absurdly low prices and hoping for more low prices.
This is like the second coming of Christ. (sorry to religious folks. I needed an analogy). A second chance to buy in at Peercoin’s all time lows like back in 2012 and 2013. I’m excited as it drops. The last thing I want to do is stop the drop.
I’m also not spreading FUD either. I’m just quietly waiting on the sidelines to win here.
But I wrote this post especially for you Cybnate. Rather than PMing me, you wrote it publicly and I’d look foolish if I ignored you. So I had to spill my beans in public “again” in a more verbose way. 