# This address finds a quarter of all Peercoin blocks. And some implication

According to this page of blockr stakes in the address P8tx5ggfB6T873N4ubwSnTCZxXGEX1Nf9E finds 200 POS blocks from 2014-04-22 21:59:14 to 04-27 20:45:10 (118.8 hours, about 5 days). The block chain has 852 blocks in this period. This means the address finds 23.5% blocks in the block chain.

There are 44 consecutive 2-chain blocks found by this address, six seven 3-chains, and one 4-chain. Assuming finding POS is random, the probability of the address finding its block after any block is p, then the probability of finding a 4-chain (three in a row after one of its blocks) is p^3, which equals 1/200, therefore we can calculate p=1/5.8

We now know that getting a 6-chain the address needs to find 200*5.8^2 = 6800 blocks. At current speed this is about 170 days.

The owner of this address has two chances in a year to double spend!

This address probably belongs to one of the exchanges. It has 547,588 PPC in balance, which is only about 2.5% of total Peercoin in existence. There are many stakes in this address. The stakes that find the blocks are typically several tens to 200PPCs ( a more accurate measurement can be taken but I only checked several), meaning that the address has 2,000-10,000 such stakes. Because it uses only 200 in 5 days, these stakes can last for 50-250 days. The 30-day waiting period is not an obstacle to maintain the level of block-finding rate.

Someone with 10% total Peercoins can therefore generate POS blocks so fast that he could own the block chain. (a s% increase of your stake will increase your chance by (1+s%)^6 ) Well since we don’t know the owner of the address have other addresses, maybe someone has been having 6-chains all the time but never (or not yet) used it to double spend (or we haven’t found out)

I am somewhat worried. This is way too much easier than I thought. Extending 6-block confirmation to 8-block will decrease the address’ chance of 6-chain to once every ~15 years. But a 10% owner can still have a good chance. One reason why this address finds so many blocks is that there must be only a small number of Peercoins minting. Proportionally this address should only get 2.5% blocks. It gets 9 times as much means that only ~10% coins are minting. Everyone should mint for the coins’ safety.

This is the piece of blockr data, the fields are POS reward, number of confirmations at the time I took the copy, date, time of block, txid

``````0.30000000   1 2014-04-27 20:45:10 f0f9b47cbe4c806fc4207258b2890bb9d0982b344bfe87ac31784c8051bab2a9
0.57000000   3 2014-04-27 20:21:05 826b35899e0f3f31b698e70f77d47f90ca9c9c676d93e854eaa2816197d8f4aa
0.16000000   6 2014-04-27 20:10:05 509b3c66544b07139b61fbf9bf4e1fba1029e7fb8df1626c240681317eb06056
0.11000000  11 2014-04-27 19:22:38 d530e36a54b2fc9a7a79232a9ebff878b11cf79cc4e1a0d97d05bcd982a4fc77
0.14000000  22 2014-04-27 18:12:53 b27354a6760400d2fb612e6fcc8d3452610c3afa34df08180263eb31c6b27464
0.10000000  25 2014-04-27 17:53:43 334b85c2014fcea873a5d0c6f7b1ef40c59b8e3d319ce6c2e52dc732121b024d
0.23000000  30 2014-04-27 17:22:50 e4f14ee8169a855027eda268b89e7cec18aa24b043099a27d1d1619c7026f9c3
0.75000000  36 2014-04-27 16:28:13 561b234df3361587fcb6c8a36f9d77a1cbf2354df98fb97e4061454f2b5bfcc0
0.40000000  48 2014-04-27 15:12:34 e0b14d789069db4a7b975500cd24a0125b49125a3e70edb81befc73586f0650c
0.55000000  56 2014-04-27 13:53:41 543d83c1ab47ba4abbe8d8803a678bf7d1e609095e8842a8eb1dd6962511c66c
0.25000000  62 2014-04-27 13:30:52 55472e60edb53319e21590afb4e16b4a6b117973858bf331d52b07fecfcd730c
0.24000000  70 2014-04-27 12:39:53 e72003dc0ab6227620bd0014773dd0fb664b110a9752ffd1312c462385dd1c3a
0.23000000  76 2014-04-27 11:28:27 1005dcdb5394ae4b94d8bb654a5f7ed35e55c0842dcd00b8c24e3951a88f2d9d
0.12000000  77 2014-04-27 11:22:57 103292797ee2c36bf0d40672703a461074eecba82fe14eb5dfe120c178da898d
0.47000000  80 2014-04-27 11:09:29 d1f26d2a188fb4447902b83bdb7a66437c206be853efea48f579ea30a24c13fd
0.35000000  82 2014-04-27 10:59:01 26017f7f180cd4d14daf3fbe4e509b14b9a8dfccf733f695c5dd1a169cfd6ec6
0.09000000  84 2014-04-27 10:43:08 68298e08dda2e3bee0222e67f056a336c51a19c613faf224eeaab31db781d330
0.22000000  98 2014-04-27 08:33:28 7c276dbbbb473b2d06f2b0b87a707b7d95a6c9fbd6b1f673f98140f60a74628d
0.16000000 104 2014-04-27 08:05:52 c5983a360f5b9d02e62e84e4c20877e02b43a65acbb415dd89ec42f0e12003e5
0.21000000 105 2014-04-27 07:45:22 c5eb32407bf91889919954e97c342e88806ed34d6fd0b6b7a8f2efe0096e69a2
0.24000000 109 2014-04-27 07:14:00 97f4c0de58f46c01bc476795125fee30335d0f5cebd0aeb2ea5437bb272779a0
0.29000000 115 2014-04-27 06:38:30 d7bdd7896975e507ae2911f573e57730b6476381021c3fb24462ceb57c452749
0.10000000 117 2014-04-27 06:33:35 45a2a625df2ca400f8638a72267313211fbb1468db8502713704d19f17b631e8
0.23000000 129 2014-04-27 05:10:45 f53b703686e9760cc94502694378c31f4320e316dd0cd7259a21964517dc3b7b
0.36000000 135 2014-04-27 04:05:41 38a428e4932b02dc18d1db54fcd3db1b71a555752709ecb44b7c47467c73b65f
0.14000000 139 2014-04-27 03:39:12 2cf68387df77dfd9f620d308e4cd48863fdc3519c614039a3915db84ed107040
0.22000000 145 2014-04-27 03:04:29 dc82be7f459f47b9348dbaa0e0ac8f090d1960e46461f65700f9e8ab21fde6cc
0.10000000 147 2014-04-27 02:48:55 69a1b7fbce90f932776c4493e507a2e175f6a8940c1fd09d6b570f5faccc5871
0.25000000 148 2014-04-27 02:37:47 547b1d2955d2e5ef84a737a767a60d2abac891142fd73d5d37c205bfe17df57f
0.24000000 158 2014-04-26 23:52:04 70c36596e4de7caa32433ab559e33a8767ca767c8e6c8a5ae9a410dda4c2a434
0.37000000 159 2014-04-26 23:34:36 bf038b1021de425caa0d1a8db6eeba39f30d888b799f485e3175159ded505e1c
0.24000000 174 2014-04-26 21:59:23 4b2cacb06d1498eabda84d8e067f767320c1d5d6d36fd6e2a0e3f366b6f2d357
0.37000000 175 2014-04-26 21:52:14 40c72662a00527bcdfefc7909a7a20036a136afc72166ae5e3b765a72b087c06
0.28000000 177 2014-04-26 21:44:56 54da19ddcf6a28feed45a3cacdba57aea4beb7edaf2b1ec7563974f2b0ae97ff
0.30000000 182 2014-04-26 20:46:14 6a619cf7d6ea9b283eb55324f14f26f2912c412210c738d4e54abcd34c356d01
0.14000000 185 2014-04-26 20:34:14 251272d829b87bfd06c401c42fa743a22aeb64d7918f5b8649bf0652fef7fe84
0.29000000 188 2014-04-26 20:18:15 dd7cce457ab94ef55fbbe9a7857817b2800a14ebe960be958d1c72c0f8d7dabf
0.23000000 192 2014-04-26 19:28:49 c4da1a71cc7a270f46904a77a3ba89f7b12b84b3103d11a77a1489b87ea8a888
0.18000000 201 2014-04-26 18:10:30 4df8a66e55e45d26489ca8364729c79d143c89ef9f6aae42d6d7e9db24e8d53d
0.03000000 214 2014-04-26 16:49:09 e3d4cd6e969da4a097f6faa1ae82799314db11c2a7f70920f8a49c1a28354713
0.18000000 220 2014-04-26 16:09:32 5299f5fe2a3de22132a5d4a71ab966fb93132f099cb022ff3764be3646851906
0.27000000 224 2014-04-26 15:46:14 590bf229d0ae2b96b4694ca0d2d14e7b83bb8f90d9818cd5760ceb757d8ac7d7
0.28000000 231 2014-04-26 15:02:20 49ecf3efd75f83fe40ec70f193ce871b39de4c53ed7b38245ccfd924ae149f59
0.18000000 234 2014-04-26 14:21:39 38094f103cec9a383a6d854c762d0b44d6fc0c50afa037a0bd26bc30f3e14b2c
0.17000000 246 2014-04-26 11:45:29 1e5166fb4879eebc2097b6a8cd30ac98edfbb1055b9c398a46022e21fbe6c6b3
0.48000000 248 2014-04-26 11:31:06 886bd9ac22d05551ef727715bb9cc8c443563defe2c924ea4c4353c8d0c4f346
0.50000000 257 2014-04-26 10:39:32 7cdccb64632ef03e26db7a72cac766994bb506e586bc54ddae9b221c32d73ab6
0.27000000 270 2014-04-26 08:40:44 37498076495692438aa46e14c38277bb9daa09753a9870c634ee245d463e3e37
0.16000000 272 2014-04-26 08:29:18 62dcebb81bd57d692c916fb6154da391a8fd856a6bf505465bede8645fe8e6c6
0.23000000 289 2014-04-26 05:39:49 7f2287be059f6d8a53240ec715016e25bae079f1fd77cb7d4246ac59cd1d5f9b
0.24000000 290 2014-04-26 05:25:26 8f5a7755d24c147eb44ef06c27ee704123e7e73ed0b02296c8a39864763ff856
0.46000000 292 2014-04-26 05:09:59 7aa11d95e5959d6099dc5fce9ec7d636048a17640acfd0461212b8d516a5e6b0
0.22000000 296 2014-04-26 04:48:46 6827e162ee2cfd88dd0fb6cb49a2b29e670e9d9a2117614d39344c99d38d1f00
0.43000000 300 2014-04-26 04:34:34 df564850eb67dbd6ec40b4066c089656ea47e938195dbefb1500150a91efd07a
0.32000000 305 2014-04-26 03:25:43 fa2dbf1a690934df49d9261a95de349225d9c6de319f71399de74ae39c63cbd1
0.16000000 309 2014-04-26 03:07:24 51281bdeabedfd20a3aa589a4af135b319837e29247b3f9afaa24b05a50ccdd4
0.10000000 311 2014-04-26 02:55:27 df2a95c2c26578b6b1e059f0b9604b710f4516c61f5dbdf585664e9574057d39
0.18000000 313 2014-04-26 02:52:15 0df0350a10c350ab7337c27776567943425431d3c9e0076edf4b18fdbb6d8c4d
0.15000000 317 2014-04-26 02:42:29 29344c75ee8882820fa9058767218243276e46651547f5d331b252d1390cbfc3
0.36000000 322 2014-04-26 01:48:03 5c2a564271fc012288eb15ee2260207ca3a405970b60551a01f77a5d6146f818
0.48000000 326 2014-04-26 01:34:12 77b13970311985f2b91fc3aee051f21d9318cfb11d406c32468ebab1a24cbe72
0.17000000 329 2014-04-26 01:22:25 83dfdf81a08e5cee2006160b2f91bc2ea73791cc6db7a16b76a341f352382fe7
0.01000000 334 2014-04-26 00:41:45 2a3072fe3247c0390cd5e10b7ed478ebf5045d0a9b0ff3c1668a06fe10cb7492
0.24000000 338 2014-04-26 00:08:47 401a49080bcf1e2036d1d8c75d99e11fbd8182c7e55c24ca5ddf346e5cc47860
0.76000000 347 2014-04-25 22:45:07 c753c2520b3deeb84c787477e27294c6caa0605d3f6dcafee51e43012481d1fc
0.22000000 348 2014-04-25 22:42:55 0c88c00ebe5b64dde0f4d53e4f293b4ccac6fa4c2bd0f1093c92b1dcb4e61d1c
0.20000000 366 2014-04-25 20:03:01 d7e271dd7ab2ffbd30934d3e147418c5107ddd57d1f1b1238848edb179d7cf8c
0.15000000 380 2014-04-25 18:11:05 2d14f731e00e59d156bd29ce1a6c093259e1e1e4a6f6239dfc894de075dea3c7
0.52000000 402 2014-04-25 15:34:23 53b7067498bdc14917c8c7ae04b5958f38476f0d3807d0c7d68e49f4429e800a
0.17000000 406 2014-04-25 14:49:55 4cefb8534b6913dd415f8e0e26e29196c65bc3b73a58167f44026d5b10b43218
0.21000000 420 2014-04-25 12:54:14 007ac8f6fb776b7ce77f878e0e5bc664ec4bd2ccca454e6ccf0d804ec8af86b1
0.25000000 430 2014-04-25 11:41:05 898800770ed3f2dd11bf04aa8cf258b0a4b7dfeb9e7ea00d936a0b65b47d3b36
0.38000000 433 2014-04-25 11:19:43 f19e46c210c7c6ff513aca64d97900b1c0e3c7c1fe7848740b9c8d41d050710b
0.12000000 446 2014-04-25 09:52:01 82ca47139ace2eb2daf88ac70f7723b629664645ef992a2ce303d14f97ccbafc
0.20000000 447 2014-04-25 09:50:29 a1c3af7baba1006502bb1a05f935f1c0d4776b9e485347a07c5fdeafd6a12f99
0.10000000 453 2014-04-25 09:19:19 cd519217753fd3475e374d4d3af880523614280d60b82e4d650e72e8f9ed5442
0.45000000 461 2014-04-25 08:15:49 ba6bd83ce0bbb14c1f7030b11685db06c4fc4e883840ce32d208b50e861c3cc2
0.10000000 468 2014-04-25 07:15:49 88af0111d7fc6ab56568f1038b9ec6b6cffd92369412f34bf7f30bd758422609
0.30000000 473 2014-04-25 06:38:15 5af3f11978128074f508d3c752111340b91ed231a59542147cb6147cc2c37c57
0.09000000 476 2014-04-25 06:28:40 b93f6289f23d75214ee3081047ba4ede9376a43079894ec27a660b42c8056913
0.46000000 487 2014-04-25 04:59:03 67b52954ca00f881f60a7eff525f12ed8d85bf75abe6f14f9b89b9840fea2fea
0.28000000 489 2014-04-25 04:44:48 3d5c58800c9486306dfeac05cd582d42dcb1ccc0d6b9a9551492100c7f232b69
0.15000000 498 2014-04-25 04:00:14 f2d7df24b7da7bd47fe64375210498b06c46656f913ee8c39cd76a4149aa3abf
0.04000000 504 2014-04-25 03:26:32 5a035f7b909f176a36e4d4c02dc6b44ecac4628f4dc74dbf554b75dc0906b48e
0.09000000 511 2014-04-25 02:50:31 3d97fbd581e7c81f37a38701b897e5ed1d97a54cbe589dbe52af077fe40bedd0
0.37000000 514 2014-04-25 02:26:32 f49b4578fbbc55a0dbd5b2be04bc70df4681789c7cae51e4f23e4dfbbb7bb50f
0.12000000 516 2014-04-25 02:25:21 85b3960eb50f5773f6f3a0a4e83e27e13338442601e27d0ccac6f91feb96a55b
0.33000000 525 2014-04-25 00:41:29 e0a5eea7d74f8cf5d12a5953ac0d6bc665535d81933b6b62cffa604126ce3f39
0.24000000 526 2014-04-25 00:28:14 31af41afe1e022e5ac9bd9c779809eef2ce70fb91c8cafc35b43c19a6d4ec3c8
0.22000000 538 2014-04-24 22:33:23 3dba51cd837948cf8e49dab376a97ca0b88f1f56404fd0dd6ced04cf17977054
0.31000000 539 2014-04-24 22:15:04 501529a848a3151e8f173f27c27d15979379650840002978f52ae9efc8a67ba0
0.27000000 540 2014-04-24 22:14:00 93241739be02809e8e29a7f7fe67232aee32dac139d360d936be61636fc25066
0.11000000 551 2014-04-24 20:30:15 46df32966b019e0eeba252ab2cc3fa4f9a8f3f32e25e14a6cfd353954d2b228d
0.59000000 556 2014-04-24 20:11:10 e2d453ae9a911ae747c6e5bcb7c8c01729f1361349faffede9f07ee72fd271b5
0.78000000 562 2014-04-24 19:40:40 736b65c188610acc00eda3967bd020eb420bdde4465b98ce56c21e56daf789bf
0.25000000 563 2014-04-24 19:11:58 8afd48550cca094cd9fd4441a984134e8b2b3bc455a51bb825ab14c777afb9f6
0.23000000 573 2014-04-24 17:35:19 09afca12e925a4cffd6f28bc7b5bec8b675bc865345d974207bd95a9eddfe773
0.46000000 577 2014-04-24 17:06:29 9b2503bc1ea8b29a0a71b24151dfccc988dffc42e0c643fa43f86778faeaf109
0.28000000 580 2014-04-24 16:50:54 0f4fa24509d4c00b59acc0dd680698802122d8c3519cd7e1e2c73a27f33e872a
0.86000000 594 2014-04-24 14:43:53 7c1fb5ca7e73fea74231916f545e5192d5910b476f1146c8a2c4a7dc8e731493
0.13000000 595 2014-04-24 14:42:56 afb476e58b5b73c3109728518705dc4df2d646e51f98c33d4eb0e3eed276ed24
0.17000000 599 2014-04-24 14:06:13 29e2bf5bbc5321dcbb6a9ee9928737473c2768f7bcdd9fbcff21355b0f13307d
0.04000000 600 2014-04-24 14:03:47 279ca6319eee776f56a3809a880a64ded59ca99fe536307d376f24029d29a43d
0.10000000 603 2014-04-24 13:41:34 d143c3c6c7eb26e541e660a17b03bca0a38ab1b2a6fd66e12261df592bac0246
0.11000000 607 2014-04-24 12:58:16 45faae79c6444dbc7464d576609ea0ef4e03582bb88cb7b6c5b8a7a70a4d6cc8
0.18000000 618 2014-04-24 11:28:45 8b5e26700a1d67134e9a840b55e1e418710e8df7d5c8d0ec29f9625589aaf8de
0.32000000 619 2014-04-24 11:22:18 098b7929225e062a9999e58432a93c4398a8a1176edef266c0af453bf564aa3b
0.10000000 625 2014-04-24 09:53:35 3834d8d386d765d387a66581f1c88b1f0c61203d441f14402c0f8c57014238ec
0.20000000 629 2014-04-24 09:15:07 54050350c54b0db6a2dfa764d1fe5effe5814f70ef254a934b0ec101470d0380
0.08000000 633 2014-04-24 08:36:45 56a7288ab759e6af5f2ffc70f0e242170ab8db4683759cac3fc3407ae96710e4
0.21000000 640 2014-04-24 06:45:51 2033312d2eaceddda13ffffbfc505fa8ef0771483742b714cacfbfdf32d5bbf7
0.13000000 641 2014-04-24 06:45:47 b44af09fe7fb8246f8ce850c7f5b37a5e7cfae0e7e25bc7765b08279e077b83c
0.64000000 642 2014-04-24 06:35:06 51b6615ffb76ac59729c8089aaa95b724d9e1f44cd771ca724daab16bd8db4aa
0.30000000 651 2014-04-24 04:58:19 8627f132d1a84ecdddbbe95b01c666ee002eba4957aa511444345134bc72c5bd
0.05000000 667 2014-04-24 01:54:12 c5c0f4b24e6875e757c53920776de25315ddb872c9af7d56d4520071e9f9c2c5
0.32000000 676 2014-04-24 00:40:31 4ae499b73808512f84feeebb4f116cfe9d66a2529331946c10ce7813978661b4
0.30000000 677 2014-04-24 00:36:36 c53c7e12311a1a4f9bfbf6bc3dd6019b63759ed088617f93615c7d0e86cda9d2
0.15000000 684 2014-04-23 22:15:06 e95141808959e39010d4a8c268c1bcb5428b70aae9568e53d66a63b8b6abdf9e
0.37000000 686 2014-04-23 21:56:02 daea6c89cf466e5c6e50d0a4c18593966e6e5740ac3139a792171e49cdfbbfac
0.09000000 691 2014-04-23 20:36:48 5bdf54aa0edd8f9d2105664fdbd9283675542aa6908ee1577aa94e93cae1a5e8
0.50000000 699 2014-04-23 19:30:13 b050484de8ba0f42a1b95c21a507751ca35cd60c1c21bcedaaa799e8898f6323
0.34000000 702 2014-04-23 19:06:34 3afb501815ba02db8c2e36995471b45645c3166dafda9890db58a97fb68de6fc
0.45000000 703 2014-04-23 18:30:34 69e6fa01a67da9e4e5728b227690683f12b8a90f95988878c5101809c926966e
0.20000000 714 2014-04-23 17:22:42 7f4f4db581de1d21731d6f6acb3582bebc010521ba733bfc73d5695038aa2a32
0.19000000 720 2014-04-23 16:54:19 00267365ee021b2e30d869b28de9a73e8fa9472720e2257bd21ab45d9f6b17c6
0.24000000 721 2014-04-23 16:51:21 b26822e798009dc51f451592e060bdc2256d954c5964a1a75ca1720138a7b9c0
0.32000000 722 2014-04-23 16:50:10 204bff9c3374d2c3b90a5e517017596aa3786d09b16337ca2d9d0a5873ee82bb
0.13000000 724 2014-04-23 16:27:32 b662fb4e3f2099728d3c913d0aa09f2a71b3466346a559e7d9a02f7e087ea3a3
0.15000000 728 2014-04-23 15:44:22 4453093d9092324a78c8a46776734db98d5e810dbe20cdc5844c102d6ed1909e
0.21000000 733 2014-04-23 15:28:15 1391a5af95dcb7f514df49fec6385d5e813ddc2c987bedc476f5af05ee75e67c
0.29000000 735 2014-04-23 15:26:26 36fe124a1041de8853301837f53d8d92fb3d72159ff74c2db835b6b0f8f1700e
0.24000000 737 2014-04-23 15:04:38 1d6b600af012d64685afa3af0454cc151cfe77aa1d47f1b287f35517a14ecfa9
0.08000000 742 2014-04-23 14:07:34 7d346c63d4dcd1eac412765dbfcc54c0545fb51969a01cebc71934ace16a5379
0.14000000 743 2014-04-23 14:04:04 0cc150df43ce953f1893fe9e86c713aa7f1a9cc10aa1be1a29f0563accfc4cb9
0.15000000 744 2014-04-23 13:51:16 e4dd674b08785982fa1478438197b50c523e568937bf08771ac8cedf79ef83a3
0.12000000 747 2014-04-23 13:41:29 6dcda1257371138c76e2274438d66319b6c93765bf751179cb717652550ff926
0.14000000 751 2014-04-23 13:09:57 252281ef945c5e153692775ba73cc966ecc9136cbe53fd53b87dec91a35fce6c
0.12000000 757 2014-04-23 12:33:47 a354d9956440d7e42eb11512e74243edb7f686bd427752cd409a6fb9c4f1aa24
0.17000000 767 2014-04-23 10:33:15 38b4815c5f288d88397b4913b352647737ac4da2847f6549ffec67ef823426b1
0.21000000 769 2014-04-23 10:05:04 4274e605c56627ddbe620aaa39f3693509e9ebbb6ca95f48cd1513fb627b8316
0.04000000 772 2014-04-23 09:05:48 d7f2ae3503a0ee9ac21a5a3308c06f4d9917f0c1425589b35996faaec0031250
0.16000000 774 2014-04-23 08:16:32 a0795d3e0d806e8125506173d1b814d648bac2b39b7fdde6e04b831cc7ab243f
0.39000000 800 2014-04-23 04:21:12 0e5986b1cec68c13716b2a4c78a26f04014b4e54dc7582475d362651d0cc28f4
0.13000000 802 2014-04-23 04:19:02 a8e9a3549892eb4a3550a1638a15acfec8bc0a14e2db94dc9827183e8efac590
0.72000000 803 2014-04-23 04:15:56 7d2f0876ce70668d235b8c886e2b888d4da980d8f2b35b972693577c4ec1ced8
0.12000000 809 2014-04-23 03:34:48 cd8b520a37fd90f0e215e1b45a9906295fd9b16aa64e3ef3a430b4c54999f147
0.18000000 816 2014-04-23 02:45:50 d0dda0f8519f9701a75dfc7f9641e474d5ecf7a8955a746709366b2f6c397a9e
0.55000000 817 2014-04-23 02:28:31 c2a67f0f3980a77833e13fdd0a8d9b83dc74c94ef9cbe42fa879c2eabe28a549
0.31000000 824 2014-04-23 01:56:19 70c3cbce5195c523a8937a3dfd21fde16c35b9e55e9be73ab8dc4dc07d86861c
0.28000000 828 2014-04-23 01:49:00 06ee9dbb3cfb8603afaa91742c3329fe37040119a54e4a16c2c7f8b967cc4ca2
0.27000000 833 2014-04-23 00:59:00 b775f1a4302dc015da5663563ee9aaa1c85e24f36596eafdcd5bbc238f3032fb
0.43000000 835 2014-04-23 00:44:38 54cc502d63f68d9070be271dc9033eba011c7482d700231f079f5201e471cb3c
0.26000000 839 2014-04-22 23:31:57 8142cdf997270927be4a186ee62b524af636cd8d1d8ec8b572978bd6d2fb779b
0.16000000 849 2014-04-22 22:12:48 46eee927ecf08e89d56ee560e8721f454927054d0d00aa716d28b4b37ffdd64c
0.31000000 851 2014-04-22 22:08:49 33c60a5e1c302e727a15b8189b2e4d99593cc9d98a46973d9363f4169280d82e
0.56000000 853 2014-04-22 21:59:14 6a7e54fd4723fca8e5d18ebfabbb38db9ff9bce2e872e1039609748dfb21c45c``````
``````  Wow, that person must love to mint ! On a more serious note, at this moment in time, this is a concern. I think this issue stems from the fact that  not enough people are minting at the moment (like OP mentioned), and I believe this is mostly down to its complicated process and people being unfamiliar with how it works.That's certainly why I don't mint at the moment. Now, the solution to this is obviously further wallet development, better/more explanations as to how minting works and its benefits.
``````

There’s still a lot of work to be done

Cheers.

This address P8tx5ggfB6T873N4ubwSnTCZxXGEX1Nf9E at present minted the most PoS blocks as seen from http://ppc.stakexplorer.com/stat/PoSMinerTop1000.html

The good news is that more and more people start to do PoS mining. As seen from the above link, that address obtains ~ 28% of total number of PoS blocks since the start of the Peercoin network, but recently as mhps pointed out that it only got ~ 23.5% of the PoS blocks. If we calculate a week window average probability p7, for this address to mine a PoS block, p7 should has decreased from over 30% to now ~ 24%, which is not a constant but decreasing, so p=1/5.8 will decrease and the probability for a double spending will also decrease.

Some other addresses who own more coins but don’t mint so often don’t have more opportunity to do the double spending. As we know, some one owns more than 1M coins but doesn’t mine PoS block so often and doesn’t get so many PoS reward. Take the above PoSMinerTop1000 for example, the most PoS Rewards address is PXbvMzM1w3Y3Ft6BzR9BFkoapY5rghvT6J , who got more than 8000 PoS rewarding coins, but doesn’t have so many active tx stake input because of the lack of participation of PoS minting. As seen from http://stakexplorer.com:2750/acdc/PXbvMzM1w3Y3Ft6BzR9BFkoapY5rghvT6J , that address will most possibly get a 2-chain PoS block. To get a 6-chain PoS block, one address should have far more than 6 active ( more than 30 mature days) stake tx inputs, which doesn’t always mean that the address has the most coins.

On the other hand, as the corase input of the tx split, more and more tx input becomes fine; at the same time, there is also PoS tx combination. I think such a PoS minting design should benefit for the PoS network security.

It’s my personal understanding. Please correct me if it’s wrong.

The HAVE the opportunity. They just choose not to use it. The one with one million coins have twice the minting power and can double spend twice every week (every 170/2^6 days ~ 3days). But the whales either don’t do it or we haven’t found out how they are gaming the system.

To get a 6-chain PoS block, one address should have far more than 6 active ( more than 30 mature days) stake tx inputs, which doesn't always mean that the address has the most coins.

The address P8tx… has thousands stakes and perhaps mints 24 hours a day. So every stakes can take 100-200 days to find a block.

On the other hand, as the corase input of the tx split, more and more tx input becomes fine;

It’s not difficult to merge split POS outputs together, after they can be spent again of course, to increase stake size using a script.

[quote=“JetJet13, post:2, topic:2284”] Wow, that person must love to mint ! On a more serious note, at this moment in time, this is a concern. I think this issue stems from the fact that not enough people are minting at the moment (like OP mentioned), and I believe this is mostly down to its complicated process and people being unfamiliar with how it works.That’s certainly why I don’t mint at the moment. Now, the solution to this is obviously further wallet development, better/more explanations as to how minting works and its benefits.

There’s still a lot of work to be done

Cheers.[/quote]

And this is why we still have checkpointing right? It protects the network from things like this until it’s large and spread out enough to support itself.

Exchanges with coins… Yea Ive thought about how that kind of thing could turn nasty: http://www.peercointalk.org/index.php?topic=2351.msg19208#msg19208 People should move their coins of exchanges asap after they bought them (always good to doo anyway)

[quote=“Sentinelrv, post:5, topic:2284”][quote=“JetJet13, post:2, topic:2284”] Wow, that person must love to mint ! On a more serious note, at this moment in time, this is a concern. I think this issue stems from the fact that not enough people are minting at the moment (like OP mentioned), and I believe this is mostly down to its complicated process and people being unfamiliar with how it works.That’s certainly why I don’t mint at the moment. Now, the solution to this is obviously further wallet development, better/more explanations as to how minting works and its benefits.

There’s still a lot of work to be done

Cheers.[/quote]

And this is why we still have checkpointing right? It protects the network from things like this until it’s large and spread out enough to support itself.[/quote]

Good point! Also a big whale shots itself in the fin if attacking the network.

[quote=“pillow, post:7, topic:2284”][quote=“Sentinelrv, post:5, topic:2284”][quote=“JetJet13, post:2, topic:2284”] Wow, that person must love to mint ! On a more serious note, at this moment in time, this is a concern. I think this issue stems from the fact that not enough people are minting at the moment (like OP mentioned), and I believe this is mostly down to its complicated process and people being unfamiliar with how it works.That’s certainly why I don’t mint at the moment. Now, the solution to this is obviously further wallet development, better/more explanations as to how minting works and its benefits.

There’s still a lot of work to be done

Cheers.[/quote]

And this is why we still have checkpointing right? It protects the network from things like this until it’s large and spread out enough to support itself.[/quote]

Good point! Also a big whale shots itself in the fin if attacking the network.[/quote]

Yes, Peerunity, single click minting, cold-locked transactions and better documentation should help solve this problem over time. Once it becomes a lot easier and safer, many more people will mint. I still haven’t even started doing this yet.

+1

Checkpointing could be too late for the damage done. For example someone doublespends by sending coins to an exchange, confirms with an attacking chain, gets credited then cancels the send transaction, gets the coins in his account exchanged other coins and withdraws. By the time checkpointing reacts the exchange would have already lost its money for good.

Before Peercoin network is large and strong we perhaps should go extra miles to educate service providers that

1. If there is a large incoming POS deposite, limit withdrawl from the account before (for example) 20 confirmations;
2. Tightly control who can access POS coins in large business wallet to minimize the possibility of attack by unauthorized POS minting.

Checkpointing could be too late for the damage done. For example someone doublespends by sending coins to an exchange, confirms with an attacking chain, gets credited then cancels the send transaction, gets the coins in his account exchanged other coins and withdraws. By the time checkpointing reacts the exchange would have already lost its money for good.

Before Peercoin network is large and strong we perhaps should go extra miles to educate service providers that

1. If there is a large incoming POS deposite, limit withdrawl from the account before (for example) 20 confirmations;
2. Tightly control who can access POS coins in large business wallet to minimize the possibility of attack by unauthorized POS minting.[/quote]

Flashing this kind of official warning could be seen as a major weakness telling people to stay away, because the coin is still far to immature. How likely is this attack to happen?

On the other hand, IF something like this would happen, it would be clear that people should stay away because the coin is for to immature.

Then again, why on earth would someone with so much coins so that they could do this, do such a thing? Maybe if someone bought heck of a lot of coins, did the attack and then sold of all of the coins then the attack would be without cost to the attacker. But, who can sell that many coins without driving down the price so much that it crashes? Using multiple exchanges? Is the market still deep enough? I’m skeptical.

[quote=“pillow, post:11, topic:2284”][quote=“mhps, post:10, topic:2284”]Before Peercoin network is large and strong we perhaps should go extra miles to educate service providers that

1. If there is a large incoming POS deposite, limit withdrawl from the account before (for example) 20 confirmations;
2. Tightly control who can access POS coins in large business wallet to minimize the possibility of attack by unauthorized POS minting.[/quote]

Flashing this kind of official warning could be seen as a major weakness telling people to stay away, because the coin is still far to immature. How likely is this attack to happen?[/quote]

I think it’s better to give the immunization shot and bear with the short term pain than not do it and suffer a blow in the future, when, say, PPC is \$100.
The whole crpoyworld is still far too immature. Mt. Gox could disappear within weeks. Better to get that reality in mind.

Then again, why on earth would someone with so much coins so that they could do this, do such a thing?

They may not do this. Their staff could do it e.g. for personal gains or for retaliating the boss. That is why the #2 above.
Actually judging from the dodgy behaviors of many of the small exchanges, I am not surprised that if some of them use public coins for quick “extra income” at the cost the community.

The suggest action is about pretty much all POS coins. There are no less than 40 of them. Peercoin is certainly not he weakest of them. Anyone of them has POS trouble will be seen as everyone else’ trouble.

I just pulled in a list 400 blocks found by the same address,and examined the list. Guess what I find? A consecutive row of 6 blocks are found by this address! From the snippet below you can see that starting from the first block, the number of confirmation is 94, 95, 96, 97, 98, 99, indicating that there is no block found by other addresses interrupting the queue.

``````Time: 2014-07-20 22:13:27
d5571c69945d7b75c13a4fce68b277126a6873a0a13111951f1eb8e1232a56a0
Amount: 0.18000000
Confirmations: 94
Time: 2014-07-20 20:49:10
d90df3c0cb1d1d467d789f7f1a9fb6b67b94eece19a6735a3ff03ce18a2f261a
Amount: 0.57000000
Confirmations: 95
Time: 2014-07-20 20:48:26
8ae4d0686c7f436e0e6f9b15e2c721eb6c10c828ed89f967da8e970de4d11d83
Amount: 0.25000000
Confirmations: 96
Time: 2014-07-20 20:46:49
2f86ea6a8e5a56d55127140455a02646eea7f7be009d69ef8154e6fe04e3cccf
Amount: 0.07000000
Confirmations: 97
Time: 2014-07-20 20:45:01
44cb2ae7b31702aeacde07283f72c60c159c4b8f77a4772c27f6eb13d53fb524
Amount: 1.16000000
Confirmations: 98
Time: 2014-07-20 20:41:52
af44438fa24a48d776fd57f73bbc4023f111108d8f500fcf0e0d3132f2a69ee8
Amount: 0.53000000
Confirmations: 99
Time: 2014-07-20 20:23:57
4c10b0df50d8e6521ec05c99804e811610321ae30d24c79d49da142596a0d4b0
Amount: 0.16000000
Confirmations: 101
Time: 2014-07-20 20:03:12
Amount: 0.23000000
Confirmations: 102
Time: 2014-07-20 19:52:58
7dbc4a6c6b851b8fc46bf22b893ac97f8c33067311bc4cba94f67c20b934c596
Amount: 0.26000000
Confirmations: 103
Time: 2014-07-20 19:15:32
ff91c83b1b40ffa18dc1ddd1a34e992e70f8112949e92107153a727c6dd3e790
Amount: 0.11000000
Confirmations: 109``````

This address now has 548,467 PPC (2.54% of money supply). POS difficulty is now 11.4. The network has found 1639 blocks in the period when this address found these 400. So this address finds 24.4% of all blocks. Of these 400, there are 109 consecutive 2 blocks (called 2-chain hereafter), 29 3-chains, 6 4-chains, 2 5-chains, and 1 6-chain. A 6-chain now contributes 2 5-chains, 3 4-chains, and so on. (In the OP I only counted one 3-chain in the 4-chain, which I think is not right. I will correct it)

Thanks for bringing this to the attention of the community mphs! Besides increasing number of confirmations, I’m not sure what can be done about it.

If its a person holding those coins (and not an exchange) I guess some coins will be sold if the price goes up.

If the address is an individual, it may be sold as the price goes up.

If the address is an exchange, it probably will shrink, as Peercoin becomes better distributed. I actually think it’s more likely to shrink if it’s an exchange.

Also, if it’s an exchange, it’s probably BTC-e. :

[quote=“Chronos, post:15, topic:2284”]If the address is an individual, it may be sold as the price goes up.

If the address is an exchange, it probably will shrink, as Peercoin becomes better distributed. I actually think it’s more likely to shrink if it’s an exchange.

Also, if it’s an exchange, it’s probably BTC-e. ::)[/quote]

Yes I guess you are right.

Yes I guess you are right.[/quote]

I take a look at the early transaction history of this address. The balance in this address was mainly accumulated from mining in the first few months after PPC was released. So the owner is an early adopter who probably has no interest in harming Peercoin by initiating a 51% attack to the network.

The issue may become serious when the owner is blackmailed or threatened though

I wouldn’t be surprised if they are Sunny King’s peercoins. :))

Is it possible to work out the “target difficulty” that we should aim for, in the short term at least.

i.e. the PoS difficulty at which the single richest address couldn’t double-spend within a year, or something like that.