Searching for intrinsic value

Primecoin is very interesting to me because it seems to be unreplicatable. The POW yields a scientific byproduct. So long as the network maintains consensus on the same blockchain the value will advance in perpetuity. This offers an intrinsic value that is unreplicatable, which is why I am a investor in this coin.

Peercoin is interesting for different reasons. Peer assets will give utility to the blockchain. However, the peercoin blockchain can be replicated and security can be maintained so long as a reasonable number of people maintain the network. Is there anything that makes or gives peercoin intrinsic value? To me, when transactions begin to be processed in the chain, like peer assets, the integrity of the chain is given value. Those who have assets imbeded into that particular chain will express and interest in its integrity and therefor the chains value is hypothocated by the value of the assets inside. But still, it can be replicated over and over.

I am just curious what your thoughts are with this respect to peercoin. Please share your thoughts.

I used to think Peercoin was in danger of being replicated, however after all the fear and worry that was generated by the well funded clone Neucoin, look where they are now, #162 on CoinMarketCap. I think it shows that even though PoS coins can easily be created and distributed to secure a brand new network, trust and reputation are hard to build. Peercoin is known as the original proof-of-stake network. We invented this. We know how it works better than anyone else. People know that and that’s why they trust us more than a newly created network with a bunch of marketing people behind it.

As to your main point about intrinsic value, I believe you’re correct. Hashing power is the scarce resource in the Bitcoin network that can’t be replicated. That is what ties it to the real world. NuBits while it was successfully running (even though it is PoS) was tied into the real world with the scarce funds that would move between the buy and sell walls. Peercoins themselves are scarce because distribution is regulated by the protocol, however anyone can create a competing PoS network and hand out the power to secure it. What we have going for us right now is our reputation and the trust that we’ve built with the larger crypto community for being a stable and reliable PoS blockchain. In the future however, Peercoin’s limited resource tying the network into the real world will be the companies/businesses/DAOs that exist on our blockchain and rely on it. The more people rely on it for various uses cases, the more they are invested in it. That will be Peercoin’s scarce resource. You can’t clone real life money generating businesses on the blockchain! They have to choose to join your network.

I agree,

Peercoin is the original PoS chain and is still running and maintained after 4 years.
Also don’t forget that peercoin is tied to the real world through PoW too! You can’t underestimate what value our mining is delivering, it kept us in the exchanges.
Also the fact that peercoin is still running securely even after these times of low adoption, gives it a very good track record.

So if you ask me, the intrinsic value of peercoin:
A reliable, stable, well maintained and efficient blockchain ready to survive the bubble.

What PeerAssets will bring, will not bring more value to peercoin directly. As the idea is that it is chain independent, but peercoin will be the default option.
However I’m pretty sure it will show people that peercoin is the right chain to publish your assets on.

Fearing peercoin replication is equivalent to fearing the nothing at stake attack. The network has a positive incentive to band together in consensus around the oldest chain due to precident. Only a real economic (or other) reason should cause a split of the network. In the case of a legitimate reason to split, this can happen with Pow almost as easily, see ethereum classic.

This is true with Bitcoin as well. Bitcoin’s source code is fully exposed.

However, the chain launched by Satoshi Nakamoto has intrinsic value simply because it was the “first”, it’s “official”, and “most widely accepted as a result of it being the first, and official”.

Yes, for the exact same reason that Bitcoin has intrinsic value.

Furthermore, the creator of Proof of Stake continues to develop this network.

We’ve had other copy cat PoS coins out there fork our code. Sometimes they want to introduce new features, and make minor changes (like block timing, or # of confirms), without realizing the full impact it has on the stability and security of their network. You find these coin developers rushing back in here once in awhile… “hey! my chain is stuck. what do I do”… You can copy Sunny King, you can’t be him.

That’s intrinsic value. Perhaps more than Bitcoin now that Satoshi Nakamoto no longer develops Bitcoin.

So perhaps in the future the threshold for divergence will be 1.) size of blockchain 2.) price of PPC 3.) confidence of security (PoS)… meaning, if the concept proves secure without POW

On a different subject, peercoin is in one of two phases.
1.) early adopter phase
Perhaps peercoin really has a future in the crypto-space and is being overlooked due to inertia and #2, once people commit they are consistent with their decision.
2.) commitment and consistency (Stockholm syndrome)
Perhaps we are all fallen in love with the faith that peercoin is a hidden treasure. This psychological norm is expressed by Robert Caildini as a psychological bais people make after committing to something.

I am of the mind that we are in #1 phase. Logic is superceded by emotion demonstrated by our current financial system. It’s clear to many that it is insolvent but those inside the system cannot envision it from the outside. It seems that not matter how much logic we (peercoin) throw at the market, the bias overcomes. I am not sure How we Jumpstart peercoin. Perhaps we just need time. These low prices are surely advantageous for the believer.

Yes they are… and when Peercoin’s price explodes, there won’t be a reason for people to complain they didn’t have an opportunity to get in…

Right now we’re at 35 cents. We were $7/ppc before. That day is around the corner again.

There is no excuse to not buy some peercoin and hold it… Running to what’s new all the time is not an investment strategy.

We are a long way from 7 dollars. I venture to say years.

Not even gold has the intrinsic value people think it does. Bananas have pretty good intrinsic value, though, because they can keep you alive. I would accept bananas as currency, in limited amounts.

A banana will rot in 7 days. Nutritional value, intrinsically delicious, and about 50 cents value. I like Aristótel’s definition of money. Gold is certainly money. Banana is definately food.

Sorry, I was trolling a bit. Of course bananas wear out too quickly to be good money. :slight_smile:

Have you seen this talk by Andreas? He addresses the question of intrinsic value. I’d recommend it.

The part about intrinsic value starts at 21 minutes and 39 seconds.

I spent 2 full days thinking about the most articulate way to respond to your opinion about it taking “years” for Peercoin to reach $7 USD again, after being that high once before.

Here’s my methodical, and well thought out answer to you suggesting it will take “years”.

====> NO <====

I spent 2 full days thinking about the most articulate way to respond to your opinion about it taking “years” for Peercoin to reach $7 USD again, after being that high once before.

Here’s my methodical, and well thought out answer to you suggesting it will take “years”.

====> NO <====[/quote]

Please elaborate :stuck_out_tongue:

And correct me if I’m wrong but I too believe that reaching the $7 again is a matter of years, I don’t see us get there in the next year.
In these days of pump & dump, the only way to get at $7 that fast is by pumping it to crash shortly after, and I don’t believe we want that.
I’d rather see us grow slow but steady to reach $7 in a few years when we’re really worth it.

I think the whole intrinsic value discussion is kind of pointless, because it seems to me as though it is clouding the bigger picture. The bigger picture is that people will denominate stuff in terms of whatever most other people use, hence the network effect is extremely important. How do you get the network effect? Well, first you have to be able to outcompete your competitor. Competitors to peercoins are among other: precious metals, USD and bitcoins. As long as Bitcoin does not fail and is cheap enough to use, why use peercoins? And on that note, no it does not matter if Bitcoin fails in ten years, in five years or next week. If there is one thing that can be learned from MtGox, Bitfinex (and countless more examples such as stock market bubbles, bond bubbles and…) it is that price does NOT discount failure that have not yet happened. Hence I believe that Bitcoin will have to fail in such a way that it is apparent to most people that it has failed, before its competitor can move in for real (pump n dumps and a few months of outperforming isn’t enough).

I believe that IF Bitcoin fails and fails because of PoW, Peercoin could emerge as a MAJOR competitor to fill the void (because PoS is the only other thing left (that still hasnt failed)). Basically Peercoin only have to survive to still be in the game, which it could because minting does not cost much. In order to outcompete all the other AltCoins, the best thing would be to have a ecosystem brewing and the technology in place to “step in” when the Bitcoin PoW failure happens.

I would advice three things:

  1. buy some peercoins now, no matter the price.
  2. buy bitcoins and when bitcoins go up in price, take profits and buy peercoins (now you will have hedged against PoW failure)
  3. make an effort to add the tech we all now will be wanted in the future: privacy features, easy to user interfaces, assets issuance, scaling (TumbleBit, Lightning network, etc) and so forth and so on.

If you do this and Bitcoin does not fail, you will make money. If Bitcoin fails and Peercoin survives you might become extremely insanely rich. Also you will have fun.

EDIT: If you think it’s enough to add crypto to a point of pay device you are incredibly ignorant. I used to think that but changed my mind when I listened to what the pros had to say about it:

A question on this old post: Where can I see that Mr. King or anybody else continues to develop this network?

    @peerchemist - Peercoin Project Leader - PeerAssets Architect
    @Sunny_King - Peercoin Architect - Lead Protocol Developer
    @sigmike - Core Protocol Developer
    @hrobeers - Core Protocol Developer
    @Sentinelrv - Community Manager - Public Relations
    @saeveritt - Developer
    @Fuzzybear - Developer
    @backpacker69 - Developer
    @Nagalim - Core Member
    @irritant - Core Member