Primecoin Prerelease

I have announced prerelease for primecoin:

Since this might have been a surprise to our supporters, I am available here to answer questions related to primecoin/ppcoin and our future strategies.

While I’m glad you can see that the low energy cryptocurrency is the ultimate direction things will likely go this is somewhat concerning for holders of PPC in regards to the splitting of your time and attention. However perhaps this fear is unfounded as you have already been assisting with the development of Terracoin, Novacoin, Bitbar and perhaps others I am unaware of. However in this case you are the lead developer for this new paradigm and it will doubtless consume more of your energy. Is it possible to PM you via this forum or bitcointalk?

For those people who are concerned, I picked out two points in the text that seem important. While I don’t fully understand it all, I’m sure Sunny knows what he’s doing here.

[quote=“Sunny King”]- Cryptocurrency market has now split into two sectors, energy intensive sector and energy efficient sector. In the longer term (5+ years) I believe the energy efficient sector would begin to challenge the energy intensive sector due to its cost advantage. In the shorter term though energy intensive market would likely remain dominant and we would like to have an innovative and competitive offering in this sector as well. The innovations in primecoin give us this opportunity, and would complement ppcoin to strengthen our strategic position in the market.

  • For existing ppcoin users our dedication to the continued development of ppcoin and its market has not changed. ppcoin’s advanced proof-of-stake technology has long-term advantage over pure proof-of-work designs, and is an innovative environmental-friendly solution to the escalating energy consumption on cryptocurrency. In my opinion the energy intensive sector will fragment into many different types of proof-of-work, a single type of proof-of-work is unlikely to maintain dominance. More fragmentation is likely even within a single type of proof-of-work. Meanwhile the energy efficient sector would rise to challege the energy intensive sector, and ppcoin is among the leading contenders in the energy efficient sector. So in terms of our long term strategy ppcoin is of more importance than primecoin.[/quote]

Yeah, I’m concerned as well, but the highlighted parts in my post at least tell me partly what the purpose of the coin is and that the longer-term strategy is still in peercoin’s favor. That put me at ease a little bit, but I would really like to know why this is so important. I’m also waiting for a easier to understand explanation from Sunny.

Yes primecoin no doubt would consume more of my time than helping with other altcoin’s problems. But most of the work from my side has already been completed in the last couple months. I would like to offer some more explanation to the purpose of this project.

The energy efficient market would take time to demonstrate its advantage, meanwhile there is strong shift in the proof-of-work side. Litecoin begins to challenge bitcoin’s market.

Coinchoose has an excellent pie chart demonstrating the shift in mining market:

In a few years that chart would have many different types of proof-of-work, bitcoin’s mining share would be further reduced. This means the relative security against 51% attack is going to be weakened for each pure proof-of-work cryptocurrency.

Primecoin may help speed up this process, taking a significant piece of mining market while attracting a larger user base to both primecoin and ppcoin. I believe it could strengthen our positioning against litecoin and other potential competitions.

Yes I know the risk involved and it pains me to make difficulty choices, especially causing additional uncertainties to our loyal supporters. Once the primecoin release settles, my focus would return to ppcoin development.

There have been many scam or clone proof of work coins released since Bitcoin’s bubble. Why exactly do you think Primecoin would help speed up the dilution of Bitcoin’s mining share more than the other coins that have been released so far? Is there something about Primecoin’s design that would help speed things along more than the other coins? Not criticizing, just trying to understand your strategy here.

Let’s move the release date to the 17th, 7th does not fit my schedule…

After getting over the initial shock, I like this decision. This is a bold strategic move to gain market share of the existing demographic that favors PoW, which can then be transitioned to PPCoin in the future.

Primecoin will be analogous to Apple releasing the iPod (an mp3 player superior to other mp3 players at the time), but then blowing everyone out of the water with the iPhone (PPC) afterwards. Recognizing consumer behavior and innovation trends takes a lot of strategic foresight, and I’m happy Sunny has recognized this.

The one caveat I would have is that PPCoin still needs to be maintained/upgraded in parallel with Primecoin to ensure consumer trust. Many of us who support PPC do have financial stakes in it, and it would be unwise to simply put us on the shelf for the foreseeable future and abandon aggressive development. We’re 3rd or 4th in market cap, and it’s going to take continued efforts to gain on Litecoin.

I also think it’s time for Sunny to recruit an expanded development team that can oversee the umbrella portfolio of the P coins…Prime and Peer. Apple has a portfolio of products (iPod, desktop computers, iPhones) with very siloed development, and I think that approach could work beautifully here. Dream big Sunny!

People tend to think about security in terms of hashrate, but in fact the real number to look at is mining income. That’s why the coinchoose mining market share pie chart is important, indicating the shift in market since last year (bitcoin share dropped from 95% to 75%).

As bitcoin loses mining market share, the supporting hardware business (SHA-256 ASIC) would also lose speed of growth due to lack of money in it. Of course this is relative to each currency’s market capitalization.

The hashrate doesn’t need to drop for security to be lowered, because it’s the cost of attack that’s the measurement of security, and it’s a relative comparison between the competing currencies. There are already people claiming litecoin is more secure than bitcoin. But there is a grain of truth in it, based on the mining market share, bitcoin is now only 3~4 times more secure and dropping.

[quote=“irritant”]I don’t understand exactly how this will reduce bitcoin’s mining share. It does not compete with bitcoin mining hardware, because it is different kind of PoW right (first only cpu, later maybe gpu, and who is still mining bitcoins with cpus) ? (Same with Litecoin, they only eat away the gpu’s of bitcoin’s mining share because they use scrypt, but since there are asics… )

I understand how it would reduce the 51% security if bitcoin miners switched to an alt coin, but not with different algorithm and first cpu only? I guess I must be missing something[/quote]


how does this help cpu mine that is against botnets which may be just directed at the coin

could I suggest a silent release of the complied qt client, to those who have over x amount of PPC or were registered on the PPC forum before a certain date,

this shows people who are at least dedicated to PPC/ your projects.

Eg the day after I purchased BTC I went around buying up PPC!, and have held them did not sell when going down (you can probably check by the minting time thing)

If i understand PrimeCoin may act as a bridge to PPC

but I don’t understand it takeing the hash rate away from BTC idea, see the overall hash available is increasing, so even if the pie is smaller for BTC this does not make it more vulnerable, also with asics now rolling out and by far the majority of new coins being scrypt his is even less an issue though that could change when everything that produces heat mines as well

on that point, it maybe that all heating elements mine eventually kind of putting a floor under the energy usage as you were going to it anyway.

Imagine the amount of power a hot water element pulls, and could be directed at mining as well.

Would I like my hot water element to be making me btc or some otehr CC, why not!

No it´s clear why progress on ppcoin is so slow currently. I think about selling my coins since I doubt one person could maintain two coins.

Honestly I feel bad for recommending PPCoin to a bitcoin business earlier in the week. Do you believe in PPC or have you become disillusioned with it?

I think I have explained it clearly. It’s expected some of our supporters and investors would not take well with this decision to release a complementary coin.

Even though I am doing most of the work currently, I expect Scott to return to the team at some point, and there are occasional interest from other developers to help with development as well. And yes I will look to expand the team with marketing and apps talents as well.

Maintaining two blockchains wouldn’t be as bad as some of you thought, because most of the work in maintenance is redundant.


I think there is a fantastic opportunity here to market & develop PPC by directly linking the two currencies as being from the same family but having significant innovative differences ie. we’re not looking at “yet another clone” but a technological progression that complements its older sibling. I’d very much encourage that is used as the official site of the new coin and that this forum also transitions to handle PrimeCoin. It would also be nice to have a collective name for the two coins to emphasise the link. This is a good move on Sunny’s part, it gives us a chance to significantly grow mindshare and community.

On the fence about this right now, but I will definitely be watching.

I have consistently been impressed with SunnyKing’s work and PPCoin, I would support him with other currencies that he released and I would like to see this forum also support Primecoin so would people be interested in me adding a Primecoin section here? Already had one response but feel that the community may feel a little divided right now, so please feel free to PM me your thoughts or I can start a thread for that.

I feel that as much as there is concern for one person to be taking the sole responsibility for a blockchains core development, I have to agree that new devs will come, and that most of the work for PPCoin is either done, or does not necessarily need the core developer to do the work right??

Would like to see some benefit to the PPCoin community for supporting PPC and Primecoin, but not sure how that would work without people crying out something not fair… any thoughts?


I think it would be appropriate to add the section because it does not matter if you like it or not it will still happen.

I must say, I am not a big fan of trying to do too many things at once but after initial thoughts I am ok with this new coin. When I see people write about different coins they use words like “rival”, “compete”, “take away from”, “replace” etc. and when I think of bitcoin vs alt-coins I lean towards words like “complement”, “improve” and “support”. I think that over time crypto currency market will become more like a stock market where instead of multiple companies you will have multiple trading currencies. Innovation will only improve the coins over time, the weak coins will die anyway as they are already being killed with 51% attacks. This is ground breaking technology and it is good that we continue to improve.
I would like to know what will be the block reward and target amount of the new coins? I can also see that it might be somewhat popular with a younger generation that does not own any asic/gpu rigs … now I am just hoping that instead of getting primecoin market place next we will get the updated client for PPCoins…

[quote=“Excelsior”]My thought is that we might embrace this new coin and help it and then discover one day that it completely destroys ppc. It’s not clear to me if Sunny hopes this new coin to be a kind of temporary WMD to bitcoin’s dominance (and thus a huge clever ploy to strengthen ppc) or an actual legitimate long-term currency that may or may not completely displace ppc (because what does he care? He’ll own millions of each coin anyways).

Which is it Sunny? What is your intention really?[/quote]

I don’t really see how this would destroy ppc. In my opinion it’s as Sunny said, a temporary coin to be used while energy intensive coins are in fasion. But in the future that fasion will most likely switch to favor energy efficient coins. I haven’t seen anything to assume Sunny has evil intentions, so I’m going to take him at his word.

Yes I would love to see primecoin and ppcoin communities to stay close to each other as well. As I said primecoin is meant to be in a strategic synergy with ppcoin. So we definitely want to constantly remind people that both innovations come from the same team and this strengthens our reputation, further differentiating us from the army of copycats.

I believe pure proof-of-work cryptocurrencies have limitations that prevent them from attaining sustained domination. This applies to primecoin as well, so even if it does become a successful project I don’t think it could ‘destroy’ ppcoin. litecoin’s success did not destroy ppcoin either. Both ppcoin and primecoin have the potential to do well.

After primecoin release the ppcoin v0.4 release would take priority. Although you should be able to trade primecoin for ppcoin on ppc marketplace before any exchange support :wink:

if i read this right I think Sunnyking is trying to make a bridge to PPC in someways with PrimeCoin

aslo sunny looks a bit board with himself, eg the fact he can help so many other coins, shows he has spare capacity that can not be consumed by PPC