PPC- the Savers Crypto Currency

reposted from bitcointalk.org-

I want to put one new idea out for everyone to ponder.

The path the crypto currency market will take in its development is hard if not impossible to predict in the very long term of 20 years or so. However, when we shorten the time frames up and focus on steps in the development we may be able to make some predictions with greater accuracy. Specifically, I look at the near term of the next two to five years and I see a few important trends.

  1. Bitcoin is not going away in the next five years. Maybe it won’t always be the de facto standard in crypto but for now and in the near future it is the flag bearer.

  2. There are too many alternate cryptos in the market now. There is too much noise in the market with currencies that don’t have and probably never will carry any real value. This brings the value of all alternate cryptos down because it creates confusion and therefore risk in the market.

  3. In the near term there will be no viable lending market in BTC or other cryptos. Until someone buys enough of a BTC stockpile to begin a viable lending business AND they find an adequate way to secure their loans we will not see interest paid on crypto holdings or the ability to ‘short sell’ a crypto. Lending crypto is very unlike traditional lending because of the anonymous nature of the holding or the ownership itself. To secure a loan a lender would have to seek real world collateral or guarantees. This is a structural problem in the market that I believe will eventually be resolved but the how is not immediately clear. Certainly, if we were to see corporations begin widespread adoption of cryptos we could see a lending market quickly evolve but I don’t see any way this would happen without a rapid attempt at regulation by both state and supernational organizations.

  4. The Cyprus Precedent. There is a lot of nervous money all over the world that is vulnerable to increased and questionable government taxation. There have always been owners of grey or shadow money that are always seeking a safer haven but for the first time there are depositors that include normal middle-class individuals that have played by the rules and are now vulnerable to having their savings seized.

  5. Global interest rates will stay low for the foreseeable future. Every major central bank, with the exception of China’s, is running a massively stimulative monetary policy. This has two important effects. First, without taking credit risk, it is impossible for a depositor to earn interest on a real basis for short-term deposits. In fact, when inflation adjusted, real interest rates in many countries are negative. Second, this kind of monetary policy increases the risk of runaway inflation.

All of these trends lead me to the new idea that I would like everyone to consider. I believe there is a big opportunity for PPCoin in highlighting the 1% POS minting yield and creating a unique value proposition by defining it as the ‘Savers’ crypto currency. You hold your money in PPCoin and when you spend it you convert it into BTC. I was further thinking that we might try to brand the ‘big three’ of BTC, LTC, and PPC along these lines: Save in PPC, Spend in BTC, Carry LTC. The idea of including LTC involves the digital wallet in your smartphone and the fast transfer speeds- digital pocket cash, if you will. I don’t really like the idea of advocating for LTC but it works for PPC as it provides a paradigm and context for how an individual user (especially a new user) can understand and use cryptos. If this became the common mindset, it deals a blow to all the other alternate cryptos out there because what purpose can they serve that is not already served by the big three? Without including LTC I don’t know that we can make that argument.

Now, getting back to the savings differentiation let’s discuss the basic definition of a currency. A currency is something that is 1) a store of value and 2) a means of exchange. PPC is a superior store of value (assuming liquidity) to BTC and LTC because of better security against a 51% attack and the 1% POS mint yield. As a means of exchange it is inferior at this time because BTC has greater liquidity against all other cryptos and real currencies and is accepted by a larger number of merchants. It’s inferior to LTC as a means of exchange today because of its slower transfer speeds. I therefore believe that rather than trying to effectively compete with BTC or LTC by getting more merchants using PPC we should be focusing our efforts as a community to spreading the message of PPC as the Savers Crypto. We focus on the key positive differentiator that PPC has over all others- 1% POS minting yield- and make this the selling point. Of course, if merchants accept PPC that’s a positive but I think the opportunity lies in evangelizing the relative advantage of PPC.

Imagine for a second what would happen if people placed even 10% of their BTC holdings in PPC. This would be about $150 million USD of inflows into PPC. The appreciation of the currency would be extreme, to say the least. Now, if cryptos were to mirror the way people treat fiat currency, we would soon see much more money in savings than in liquid cash or checkable deposits. In fiat terms M2 is multiples of M1. The potential for PPC, if adopted as the ‘savings crypto’ is tremendous. Consider also, that if people are saving even moderate proportions of their crypto holdings in PPC the need for BTC as an intermediate currency decreases. That is, if everyone has it, merchant adoption will automatically increase because they need to save as well and neither they nor their customers want to have to pay an extra transaction cost of conversion to/from BTC. The path to possibly eclipsing BTC starts with an adjacency that complements BTC.

One other point to make is about volatility. When BTC trades in a range from 50 - 260 USD in just a few days, the 1% minting yield becomes irrelevant even though it beats fiat rates. A liquid market is important but a stable market is equally important. If you look at the lack of major volatility in BTC over the last week and in the longer periods prior to the last run-up and crash, this is the kind of market that would be ideal for PPC proliferation and adoption. A slow increase in BTC combined with a growing belief in the superiority of PPCoin for savers would be ideal because holders would get the 1% yield and a steady capital appreciation.

The major problem with advocating PPC as I describe is that we need improvements to the wallet. Presently, the wallet can only mint POS coins if it is unlocked. I think Sunny is already working on this. A further security improvement of ‘cold-locked transactions’ has already been proposed by Sunny though no development timetable has been released. With these two security improvements in place we might expect faster traction of PPC adoption as a Savers Crypto. I would put it to the community that right now getting a locked minting wallet in place is the highest priority for development of the currency.

Beyond the technology, there is everything else that can be done to promote this concept. Building it into the presentation and messaging of the coin on the official site, into the new designs that people have been playing with, into the conversations that we all have about PPC and crypto in general…

Thanks for taking the time to read this. I look forward to hearing your thoughts and discussing this with you all. I will be posting this in ppcointalk.org as well.

Brilliant, I believe all has been said well enough.

Without spoiling the fun I will remark that all articles should be at least of this quality.

And Now, the spoiling of the fun: It’s not completely correct all of the above is true for PPC only, FTC or CNC may do the same as well. The critical point is the “critical mass”, which for the loss-making mining of FTC grows faster than for PPC, thus it is possible the FTC could overgrow over PPC and somehow make it even less wanted on the markets.

Good cryptocurrencies are based on two major aspects:

  1. limited availability
  2. predictable release of new coins
  3. enough circulated volume of coins and in value too.

BTC reached several milestones long ago. Recently - an economist compared the BTC to the PayPal. Because when e-bay bought PayPal, it was for ~1bilion USD. He compared the value and utility further between BTC and paypal, with a clear conclusion: BTC is worth it and will be worth even more, even if we ignored all history and just based our assumptions on the paypal analogy.

But we know far more than that.

So, let’s concentrate on the weaknesses of all coins: the network support. The PPC network is very small. Pool hashrates are also small. Well, that is if you can FIND an pool!

But let’s not talk about that either. Let’s concentrate on the very near future when a revelation, an apocalypsis will happen. There are ~100 Terahash of capacity in SHA-256 currencies scheduled to enter the bitcoin network even before the beginning of August 2013! We can easily predict difficulty of ~23-28 milion in the BTC network by then, but… let’s not worry about what will happen to bitcoin network now, okay?

Because it will all affect the LTC, FTC, PPC networks too. Some of the new hash stations will spill into the PPC network. The yields per hashpower will drop slightly, without increases in the sellprice in the next 3 months. But worse things will happen, and that is the mass exodus of the GPU hashers into LTC, FTC and PPC.

Now this complicated thing happens here: The BTC/USD ratio. The LTC/BTC ratio and the conclusive LTC/USD ratio. Many users of the network will be interested in the final, indirect ratios of LTC/USD, FTC/USD, PPC/USD. There is a 2-3 month lag between peaks of hashrate and coin market value drop (right?), but even before that drop will be able to materialise, there will be another massive attack on the network, in the order of 1000 Terahashes per second. (slowly installed during month, two or 3?)

This is a fantastic exercise for all the people interested in simulation, because these equations are so interwoven together and yet, even visibly SO UNSTABLE and prone to oscillations… Did I already mention that people abound the world are in different need of money supply? For example a student in USA is in dire need of only 5000USD for his studies, while someone on the other side of the world has increased his earnings that year to 500USD! (And he decides to invest in BTC or mining hardware…)

I would love to write now: “hilarity ensues”, but I don’t think it’s funny anymore. There are people to be devastated over the next 6 months. Possible dirty reports on TV too. And the state security agency of the USA has got themselves involved in an attack on MtGox operations already. Oh, didn’t you know? “Things are going to get much more interesting.” A Bedlam. (I recommend you to play that PC game, it makes the word Bedlam a good name.)

I completely agree your point that critical mass in usage is the key factor in PPCoin’s success. This is why I wanted to put the idea into the community now so that perhaps a new discussion might help move adoption in the right direction. It’s a critical time for PPCoin given all the competing currencies, the recent drop in price, and the overall volatility in the market. The market capitalization of the currency is only $4 million USD which is a nice seedling but no guarantee of survival over the medium term. Of all the cryptos, only BTC has an assured position going forward in my opinion but I do think the merits of PPCoin are compelling and that it has a good chance of becoming a ‘mainstream crypto’ if and when such a group develops.

As for the coming ASIC hashing explosion, I think this is a net benefit to PPC because as GPU mining becomes unprofitable the number of network nodes will decrease for POW mining which makes BTC less secure to a 51% attack than it is today. However, for PPCoin the security will increase in relative terms because POS minting nodes will stay intact without ASICS. Overall, supply should remain constant as difficulty increases so the overall effect is that non-POS networks become less secure and PPCoin’s network becomes more secure.

On the subject of PPCoin pools check out D7- I’ve had only a positive experience with them.

https://ppcoin.d7.lt/

As a shameless act of self-promotion (and not to double post), we can see analogies between BTC and our endless hunger for resources: http://www.ppcointalk.org/index.php?topic=137.msg809#msg809

I think it is very fitting and true to the core of the concepts that underlies both.

As for GPU mining ending any soon (before 2016): it will NOT happen. There is the LTC, FTC and all the others. Can you see that the people on SHA-256 with GPUs will simply migrate there and cause havoc there too?

OK, so I’ll repost my response to this too (and hope discussion will go on here instead of bitcointalk):

1% interest has no real effect for savers. It is just slow inflation on money supply. After one year you might have 1% more PPCoins but this doesn’t let you buy more real goods just by itself. Only a rise in PPCoin value does. So there is no advantage over bitcoin at all due to such an interest rate.

The real advantage of PPC to me is an ecological one: All other major cryptos will soon waste an awful lot of energy. An ecological problem of that scale would most probably contribute to an economical one (externalized cost a.s.o.)

So PPCoin advertisement to me should focus on:

[ul][li]explain people the wastefulness of BTC and LTC (this is not well done today. The PPC Paper just states the wastefulness of PoW but doesn’t explain it in detail)[/li]
[li]show them why PPCoin is better in this regard[/li]
[li]And, by the way: Show people that PPCoin is backed and developed by more people than just Sunny King. This needs to become a community project (in reality and perception) instead of a one man show to build trust.[/li][/ul]

Please check my thread on PPC money supply. My concern is that PPCoin could be even slightly more volatile than BTC by design.

brenzi,

I’m going to need to split my response to your post as I need some time to think about your volatility argument and money supply dynamics- thanks for posting that by the way- very thought provoking.

Regarding the 1%, I agree that the 1% is inflation- for the currency- but to the holder it is effectively interest. In no other currency would the additional inflation-created currency be paid to a holder. The holder is diluted, if you will, or the inflation lessens the value of the currency.

In PPC the inflation is paid to the holder via the POS mint so that if, say in the future, the aggregate inflation is 1% and the holder receives a 1% stake minting accrual, the holder’s real return is 0%. This as opposed to the -1% real return he would be receiving if he didn’t earn a stake mint or if he was in another crypto that inflated by 1%. Either way he’s up 1%, which I agree is not a massive return but it is positive and it is higher than the alternatives, fiat or crypto over the same holding period.

I agree your points that PPC is attractive for other reasons as well and should also be marketed along those lines.

My argument is simply that the Saver concept should be built into the talking points of our community as we discuss and promote PPC. If I’m a big investor moving a large sum of money into crypto, I’m going to want that 1% all else being equal.

More later-

That’s bang on the money (if you’ll pardon the pun). I don’t like LTC, and its proliferation of energy hungry GPU rigs. They epitomise the disconnect of modern society, where people do not appreciate the direct consequence of their actions. Such rigs should be unprofitable NOW. They’re only not because energy is too cheap. It’s too cheap because my children and generations thereafter will be paying the real price of the pollution caused by the carbon unlocked by big oil…

Basically, you got it right. You also say by that, that for many years to come, the LTC will be still profitable because of the very same argument. Because the modern society is what it is. Because people do not appreciate consequences of their actions. Because crude oil will be too cheap for many years to come yet.

[[By too cheap we understand cheaper than all the cost of alternative replacements made from other sources, which are 2x to 4x more expensive still at this time. (chemical, material, energetic)]]

[quote=“ifeelthefuture, post:6, topic:105”]brenzi,

I’m going to need to split my response to your post as I need some time to think about your volatility argument and money supply dynamics- thanks for posting that by the way- very thought provoking.[/quote]
thank you for the credits. Looking forward to reading your thoughts.

Only if you compare the 1% to the case where you wouldn’t mine PoS blocks. Then you really get 1% more.

Have you read about Decrits? Just a proposal so far. But with interesting features. One of them is that a big share of newly minted coins is distributed randomly among users of the currency.

No investor would be attracted by 1% interest. Given the risks of cryprocurrencies, the target ROI probably needs to be >10% to attract investors. And even if you talk about “1% more than the others” - it’s still not that number that makes an investment attractive. The risks probably vary more form coin to coin.

Interesting discussion! You have the OP’s respect - please encourage him to post more code and wikify his thoughts…

I’ve just investigated on BTC vs. PPC inflation.

Right now, BTC inflates by 12.5%/y (source)

For PPC it’s not that easy to get the figures. Because I didn’t find a decent blockexplorer with nice charts, I had to parse the blockchain itself… please find the resulting money supply plot attached to this post. (and forgive me for not beautifying the time axis)

What comes out for the past month is a money supply increase of 1.83%. This means the yearly inflation is currently at roughly 24%. (Please double check my numbers.)

So for the time being, the 1% PoS inflation is not much more than noise.

[quote=“brenzi, post:11, topic:105”]I’ve just investigated on BTC vs. PPC inflation.

Right now, BTC inflates by 12.5%/y (source)

For PPC it’s not that easy to get the figures. Because I didn’t find a decent blockexplorer with nice charts, I had to parse the blockchain itself… please find the resulting money supply plot attached to this post. (and forgive me for not beautifying the time axis)[/quote]

Someone posted some charts, via Vircurex, in this thread: http://www.ppcointalk.org/index.php?topic=202.0

[quote=“brenzi, post:11, topic:105”]What comes out for the past month is a money supply increase of 1.83%. This means the yearly inflation is currently at roughly 24%. (Please double check my numbers.)

So for the time being, the 1% PoS inflation is not much more than noise.[/quote]

PPC is currently being mined via PoW, so though it may be noise at this early stage, it’s expected noise, isn’t it?

[quote=“glowkeeper, post:12, topic:105”][quote=“brenzi, post:11, topic:105”]I’ve just investigated on BTC vs. PPC inflation.

Right now, BTC inflates by 12.5%/y (source)

For PPC it’s not that easy to get the figures. Because I didn’t find a decent blockexplorer with nice charts, I had to parse the blockchain itself… please find the resulting money supply plot attached to this post. (and forgive me for not beautifying the time axis)[/quote]

Someone posted some charts, via Vircurex, in this thread: http://www.ppcointalk.org/index.php?topic=202.0[/quote]

There’s also this: http://www.proofofstake.com/

Not sure what you want to say by this. Of course it is no surprise that PoW ist still dominating minting. I just tried to point out why PPC is NOT a “savers crypto currency”. At least not any more than bitcoin is.

That site is empty and mostly unavailable.

Not sure what you want to say by this. Of course it is no surprise that PoW ist still dominating minting. I just tried to point out why PPC is NOT a “savers crypto currency”. At least not any more than bitcoin is.[/quote]

PoS is the minting process by which 1% will be achieved. Hence, if PoS is not the dominant minting process, then another figure has to be expected.

That site is empty and mostly unavailable.[/quote]

You have to wait for he site to load.