PPC identity

[quote=“Hibero, post:16, topic:1995”]As a “backbone” cryptocurrency, the most effective position would be the primary coin in an exchange.

As in, Peercoin should be able to convert to nearly any currency easily and in one step. That includes fiat and crypto.
So instead of BTC/LTC, BTC/DOGE, BTC/DGC, BTC/WDC, etc. it would be PPC/LTC, PPC/DOGE, PPC/DGC, PPC/WDC etc.

Once Peercoin has that, I think it may be in a prime position to become the “long-term store of value” currency.[/quote]

In continuation of what I was referring to, I think it may be best if we would to get a few entrepreneurial devs and some Peercoin holders to develop and fund the exchange. I do not think I have the technical ability to run start such a venture by myself but I would gladly help in whichever way I can.

This would also (hopefully) be a community project, possibly even leveraging Peershares.

I do believe this is one of the best ways to create more value in Peercoin and demonstrate the Peershares architecture.

Hibero, I like the idea.

This is constructive. These days we spend so much time chasing our tails trying to answer questions about why Peercoin is good in its current form. It just is, mmmkay? :stuck_out_tongue:

We have a community of volunpeers and achievers trying to help bring Peercoin to the next level.

Could it be some people are deliberately trying to stall our progress by continually asking theoretical nonsensical questions just to get us spin our gears relentlessly in debate all the time?

Onward ho!

I’d really like to see an exchange built that uses PPC as the backbone currency as designed.

Transfers in/out of the exchange for the standard 0.01 PPC transaction fee would make sense. Leave your trading funds in the exchange until you are ready to cash out a lump sum.

Good idea Hibero. Some one should get to work on this, absolutely!

I had directed Sunny to this thread and asked him what he thought about marketing Peercoin as the savings account of the crypto world, referring him to my second post in this thread. Here was his response to me…

[quote=“Sunny King”]The savings approach is fine with me, as I have explained in that way regarding the current transaction fee policy. But keep in mind this is relative to bitcoin, as currencies serve all three monetary properties (store of value, medium of exchange, unit of account) at the same time, but may excel at different aspect. We can argue that peercoin serves as store of value better than bitcoin.

Aside from transaction fee, I think the long term security prospect also favor peercoin for store-of-value function. Of course, that doesn’t mean it won’t serve medium of exchange function as well.

Best Regards[/quote]

[quote=“Sentinelrv, post:23, topic:1995”]I had directed Sunny to this thread and asked him what he thought about marketing Peercoin as the savings account of the crypto world, referring him to my second post in this thread. Here was his response to me…

[quote=“Sunny King”]The savings approach is fine with me, as I have explained in that way regarding the current transaction fee policy. But keep in mind this is relative to bitcoin, as currencies serve all three monetary properties (store of value, medium of exchange, unit of account) at the same time, but may excel at different aspect. We can argue that peercoin serves as store of value better than bitcoin.

Aside from transaction fee, I think the long term security prospect also favor peercoin for store-of-value function. Of course, that doesn’t mean it won’t serve medium of exchange function as well.

Best Regards[/quote][/quote]
Please pay attention, a few wise words here from SK, don’t bet on a single horse.

In the long term Bitcoin could also serve as a store of value when it becomes truly deflationary after having mined all 21m Bitcoins. Peercoin can also advance in medium of exchange when Bitcoin network becomes to expensive for transactions due to the mining costs or less secure or centralised as they try to find their away around managing their huge blockchain.

Hence, my earlier post in this thread around comparing Peercoin with a house. Store of Value, Unit of account (what I called usability) and medium of exchange (what I called liquidity). Those are the three horses to bet on. Marketing can focus on one element but this shouldn’t cause a halt on developments for the other elements. Even in marketing you have key messages and secondary messages targeted at different audiences. Just check major bank advertisements.

Hope we’re not going into an identity crises :wink:

PPC is a better storage of value than BTC first because PPC is more secure. PPC now doesn’t need POW mining to function as a payment network. Its POS blocks process transaction nicely already. In 2013 we witnessed that ASIC arms race has brought concentration of control of BTC network to large farms and pools. In my mind BTC without hard forks (i.e. transform into BTC 2.0 or into whatever you call the new coin) won’t surve the next 5 years. PPC has a better chance to be a survior. It’s main competitor is not BTC, but a better coin that also uses POS. If you are a Peercoin investor, you want PPC to evolve.

Hey Guys

I think we have a misunderstanding of the the relationship between “store of value” “medium of exchange” and “unit if account”. These aren’t separate attributes but ones that build on each other. Things aren’t “stores of value” in a vacuum. There is always a “because” attached to a “store of value”.

Met needs -> demand -> Store of value. NOT Store of value ->demand -> met needs.

In sentence form, something is a store of value, because there is demand. There is demand because it meets needs.

Misunderstanding this was one of the fundamental errors that perpetuated the sub-prime mortgage meltdown and global financial crisis.

There are many attributes of housing that help support demand (aesthetic and beauty qualities included) however the fact that people need a place to livee is teh only sustainable and key one. Houses “store value” because people must have places to live and express this need through demand. As long as there is a large enough population that needs new places to live, competition to secure living space will put a floor under the nominal price of housing (in both buying and renting terms). However when more housing exists than people who need it (need = live in it, not simple want it or like it), the price crashes down. We all were alive to experience 2006-2010 so I’m sure you know what I am talking about.

Art acts as a store of value because it meets aesthetic and emotional needs. Bonds act as a store of value because the trust I have in the issuer (based on their particular strengths) gives me piece of mind that I will get my money back at future date X. etc etc etc. And just like everything else, money acts as a store of value because it meets other needs. It doesn’t start as a store of value and then meet needs.

Met needs -> demand -> Store of value. NOT Store of value ->demand -> met needs.

The identity crisis here is around what needs PPC will meet so that there is demand. If PPC is not used as a day to day “medium of exchange” (which meets a fundamental human need to have a fungible asset everyone accepts so that we don’t have to barter) then what other need will it meet? Saying PPC is a store of value is not a strategy. It is a goal. Answering how PPC will meet needs will produce the strategy to achieve the goal.

Does this track? Is there a gap in anything I just said above?

If it does then this means that another coin will take on the medium of exchange role, and PPC will need to be completely tied to that primary medium of exchange coin is come way and meet some related, but different needs. This is a pretty complex goal to achieve.

[quote=“FuzzyBear, post:20, topic:1995”]+1 on ppcman post… looking back in time made me all nostalgic https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=99735.msg1106902#msg1106902

still need to digest everyone else’s posts in here b4 larger comment

Fuzzybear[/quote]
I can’t believe you didn’t call me! I missed that by like a year… Now you are the one holding those 2M peercoins, congrats!

Gold is not used as a trading currency anymore not because people don’t want to, but because it was forbidden by the governments. In history, human beings had used gold as a media of exchange for thousands of years.

It is not that we don’t want ppc to be a microtransaction media. It is just that the current technology of cryptocurrency is simply not mature enough to address all the technical difficulties. It is simply NOT sustainable in that territory.

After all, all the current CC are still an experiment. It is important to stick to what we CAN, not what we WANT. If we push it, it may collapse instead. In the long run, if we can survive without being killed by fatal issues, then it is just a matter of time to be truly successful.

Just my 2 cents.

p.s. I think OP’s opinions at least partly stem from his idea of “value comes from usefulness”. I think this is wrong. Value is subjective, not objective. Value comes from people’s consensus.

p.s. p.s. I think NMC’s identity’s problem is totally different than ppc. NMC’s second identity is not even a currency, it is just a way to decentralize DNS. That’s why people have no interest. PPC’s double identity (if you call it that way) both are still currency. People maybe confused a little but they will not lose interest.

Personally, I highly doubt, that this mechanism will serve price stability. If the liquidity is reduced, due to a high transaction fee, the volatility will rise! You can analysis nearly any market and see that the volatility is anti proportional to the liquidity.

I appreciate Peercoin, just because of its solid and sustainable construction. When the minting phase of all the other pure-PoW coins ends, nobody knows how the networks will transform. There is this huge risk of network centralisation. Peercoin solves this major problem and many more possible issues (don’t want to name them all).

And exactly this solid and sustainable construction gives Peercoin its identity! Due to its construction, it can better serve as a store of value and as a unit of account as many other coins. If we keep Peercoin liquid, i.e. keep the transaction fees low, it will as well serve as medium of exchange and by doing so, Peercoin will gain more acceptance, wider adoption and less volatility.

Here, I am with iheartcryptocoin. We need to serve any of the three properties of money, in order to create a strong demand for PPC. If and only if we archive this aim, Peercoin can serve as store of value! Otherwise due to a high price volatility, Peercoin will be unattractive as a store of value.

A long time ago (about a month ago) I made this post.

[quote=“merockstar, post:1, topic:1173”]I was wondering if you fine people could help check my understanding on some concepts, and help to solidify them.

Peercoin is designed to be the savings account of cryptos.

Proof of work will eventually be phased out entirely, in time (how much time?) and the network will use pretty much only the resources consumed by the computers minting proof of stake. Making it more environmentally friendly.

The fixed transaction fee functions to incentivise people to save peercoin long term and minimize transactions, and disincentivise them from using it as a currency.

Annual inflation from proof of stake functions to offset the transaction fee after having saved the coin for at least a year. So people will eventually want to at least get their year out of their coin to cover the transaction fee.

When transactions happen, those fees get destroyed, offsetting the coins created by proof of stake some, and helping to keep the number of ppcoin in existence lower.

Because of peercoin’s intentional design as a coin to save money with, if peercoin comes to serve its purpose on a widespread level, and crypto comes to be ubiquitous, then the fact that most of worlds wealth is being stored in savings accounts and bonds, means that peercoin’s target userbase’s funds represent the biggest chunk of the potential crypto market cap (those who want to gain safe interest on their savings, like a savings account or bond would in the old system).

So when people finally figure out what the different cryptos are used for, peercoin is going to get slammed with everybody’s long term savings. Also, the fact that people are incentivised to save for at least a year means that the supply of cryptos available will be much lower than similar markets for other coins, that don’t penalize people for transacting. This means that at some point in the future we’re going to see huge demand from people wanting to establish their stakes converge with limited supply in a market that encourages people to save their coin and gain interest. That sounds like a recipe for a moon bound coin price to me.

Because peercoin is intended to be used this way, if it eventually grows to fill the niche carved out for it then it becomes the most lucrative potential investment in the crypto market today.

I see people using whatever currency ends up being popular for buying bread (sunny proposed primecoin for this, which supplements peercoin by using the PoW necessary for day to day transaction to also contribute to science by finding cunningham chains, but I wonder if an already established coin like litecoin might end up filling this role instead simply because it was the first to become established) to save up to buy some fraction of bitcoin. People would save up to buy bitcoin (or take loans from the new banks), and use those to buy, houses, cars, and other expensive goods and services that you wouldn’t need to pay for with Litecoin/Primecoin/Quark/whatever takes hold. One could then convert that btc to ppc if they wanted to save their wealth for a few years and gain interest.

Am I missing/misunderstanding anything? I think I’m almost more bullish on peercoin than I am bitcoin now…[/quote]

When I posted that was the moment I became an actual peercoin supporter.

For the longest time I was wondering, “ok an alternative to bitcoin, but why? Litecoin exists, and seems to be faster than this. is it the proof of stake aspect? I suppose it makes it more secure, but if bitcoin works, why bother with the added inflation other than for security but is it really worth it? Bitcoin works, does it not? Are people really going to give up their first mover coin just for environmental reasons?”

Then I grasped, from Sunny King himself, in this and several other SK quotes, the idea that PPC was designed as a savings account:

From my point of view, I think the cryptocurrency movement needs at least one 'backbone' currency, or more, that maintains high degree of decentralization, maintains high level of security, but not necessarily providing high volume of transactions. Thinking of savings accounts and gold coins, you don't transact them at high velocity but they form the backbone of the monetary systems.

Which brought me one step closer, but it hadn’t clicked yet. However, this is why I went into this post assuming already that Peercoin was being marketed as a savings account.

What really got me to pondering was hearing about this fixed transaction fee, “Wait, what? Does that not stifle SPENDING? The sacred crux of our economy? SK doesn’t talk stupid… what is he thinking?”

Thats when I was finally able to put it all together and figure out where Peercoin fits in.

The marketing as a savings account is what distinguishes Peercoin from other currencies. It’s what drew me in. I think we must get the word out there that PPC is like bitcoin, except for savings, and we must explain it well enough for it’s role to make sense.

Just almost entered a second identify crisis with Peercoin when Sakhan posted this here:
http://www.peercointalk.org/index.php?topic=2183.msg17861#msg17861

It basically says that Peercoin beats Bitcoin from a retailer perspective looking at the risk of proceeding with a transaction with 0 confirmations. This might push Peercoin back for mainstream transactions in the future which don’t go through a centralised payment processor (additional risk with availability and their costs for retailer and therefore I think a transitional model for cryptos).

But I think a focus on a savings account would be fine for the next year or so as I suspect Bitcoin won’t sit still for a year.

i was thinking it would be good if you could buy land/property with peercoins and vice versa… (as that is something you save up for a long time). also university fees/education etc…

I agree that peercoin targets to be a currency backbone. But this also means it will never be mentioned as payment option (such as “bitcoin accepted here”). In my opinion this poses the biggest threat for mainstream adoption as peercoin may not gain that much public and media attention than a coin that is used in transactions.
Gold isn’t used either for payment transactions, but only because it is not practical these days. It is still popular as a store of value because of its history.

What are your opinions on this?