Peercoin was Designed by Sunny King to Replicate Gold in Digital Form

Note: This is only my opinion, but it is what I have come to understand over my time with Peercoin.

I have always had trouble understanding the underlying purpose behind Peercoin. My understanding of it has gone through several evolutions over the last 3 years. I used to think it was just a more decentralized and inexpensive way of securing the blockchain for payments, but it turns out there was a lot more to it than I expected. Even now I may not fully grasp Sunny King’s vision for Peercoin, but I’ve tried my best at figuring it out.

As I said, I originally believed Peercoin was about payments, similar to Bitcoin. Once learning more about the fixed 0.01 PPC/kb fee as a mechanism for preventing blockchain bloat and transaction spam, I started questioning how Peercoin could possibly be used for microtransactions, since the fixed fee would block them. I then reread one of Sunny King’s older quotes and realized that microtransactions could still be performed by off-chain networks to bypass the fee completely and avoid blockchain bloat. I got excited after understanding this and went on a spree of explaining to everyone that Peercoin could still be used for microtransactions by using off-chain networks to bypass the fee entirely.

[i]"Right now if we are talking about micropayments in the US$1 range, both PPC and XPM still handle them with much lower overhead than credit card network. In the long term micropayments should be provided by centralized providers, or a less decentralized network optimized for high capacity transaction processing."[/i]

Though once the price stable USD pegged crypto NuBits was released by Jordan Lee, I again started to question Peercoin’s underlying purpose. Peercoin behaved more like a commodity with its volatile price swings, so I asked myself why anyone would use either Bitcoin or Peercoin for everyday payments when they could use a solution like NuBits instead, which was similarly secured through PoS, except with the added price stability and increased transaction speed. I again reread the same quote from Sunny, but this time I focused more on his talk about Peercoin as a backbone currency…

[i]"Both PPC and XPM are designed to last. PPC is designed with energy efficiency, XPM is designed with energy multiuse. Bitcoin has a long term uncertainty as to whether transaction fees can sustain good enough level of security. Before that the main concern is how to balance transaction volume and transaction fee levels. Currently I get the feeling that bitcoin developers favor very low transaction fees and very high transaction volume, to be competitive against centralized systems (paypal, visa, mastercard etc) in terms of transaction volume, to the point of sacrificing decentralization. This also brings major uncertainties to bitcoin's future.

From my point of view, I think the cryptocurrency movement needs at least one ‘backbone’ currency, or more, that maintains high degree of decentralization, maintains high level of security, but not necessarily providing high volume of transactions. Thinking of savings accounts and gold coins, you don’t transact them at high velocity but they form the backbone of the monetary systems.

Pure proof-of-work systems such as bitcoin is not 100% suitable for this task. This is because transaction fee is not a reliable incentive to sustain network security. If the mining generation amount is kept constant (there have been several such attempts in altcoins) it would work better security-wise but then it would also significantly weaken the scarcity property of the currency. XPM’s inflation model is designed in such a way that it could serve as backbone currency better than bitcoin if needed, because it could maintain high security reliably for longer, with reasonably good scarcity property as well. Of course that’s only from architect’s point of view, whether or not it would be chosen by the market is a whole different matter.

PPC is designed to serve even better as a backbone currency. The proof-of-stake technology in PPC is not only energy efficient; it also maintains high level of security without relying on transaction fee. Thus PPC could be safely designed with strong scarcity property yet serving well as backbone currency. Both PPC and XPM use protocol enforced transaction fees, which reflects my preference that high transaction volume is discouraged in favor of serving as backbone currencies."[/i]

It was another Peercoin community member (Pillow) who finally made me understand Sunny’s backbone argument. Peercoin is not designed for everyday payments at all. It’s not designed for paying your grocery bills, gambling online or anything that has to do with everyday payments. It’s also not designed for price stability. The Nu Network was designed to satisfy these needs. Peercoin on the other hand was designed for maximum decentralization and security. Peercoin’s underlying purpose is to replicate gold in digital form by providing the ability to store value in an inexpensive to maintain crypto network which prioritizes security, decentralization and scarcity over speed, low fees and transaction volume. This is the definition of a backbone crypto.

Bitcoin is not a suitable digital replacement for gold because of the amount of expended energy required to mint new coins and maintain network security, in addition to its unsustainability issues with proof-of-work consensus. Peercoin on the other hand requires enough energy through its proof-of-work process to bring newly minted coins into existence, but it behaves more similar to gold when it comes to the lower cost of maintaining its security through proof-of-stake. In comparison, it’s slow, difficult and hard work to extract gold, similar to proof-of-work. Security from theft is a concern, but in comparison with extraction, little effort is required to actually maintain gold and secure its value, similar to proof-of-stake. In contrast, there is a large cost to simply maintain Bitcoin’s security, which diverges from the small cost of maintaining gold. The low maintenance cost will mean Peercoin wins out in the end.

The US dollar is a currency while NuBits is a cryptocurrency. In the same way, gold is a commodity while Peercoin is a cryptocommodity. In the end, I believe Peercoin is destined to become the true digital gold rather than Bitcoin, as it was designed by Sunny King from the beginning for this very purpose. People may not recognize this yet, but they will eventually. The cracks in Bitcoin are already starting to form. We need Sunny to finally remove centralized checkpoints with v0.6 in order to fulfill Peercoin’s ultimate goal of maximum decentralization and wait for people to realize Bitcoin’s inevitable fate, where Bitcoin miners will switch their servers completely over to Peercoin, thus drastically lowering Peercoin’s proof-of-work inflation rate. While Bitcoin and other cryptos fall victim to blockchain bloat and centralization attempting in vain to become payment networks for microtransactions, Peercoin will continue to focus on creating the most decentralized and secure network possible for storing value.

Edit: Sunny King responded in the thread below…

[quote=“Sunny King”]The confusion regarding the terms ‘currency’ and ‘commodity’ as in ‘cryptocurrency’ and ‘cryptocommodity’ arises in relations to an understanding of the macro views of the monetary system.

In the past when gold was the absolute base money, I guess no one called gold ‘commodity’, but only ‘money’, ‘currency’ etc. Now that gold has been stripped off many of its monetary roles by governments force, it is now widely referred to as ‘commodity’. From user’s point of view it’s about price volatility, it’s understandable as one of the three major functions of money, unit of account, has been stripped from gold and given to fiats, this has made gold look volatile and commodity-esque. Still keep in mind, fiats are also volatile relative to each other, so even though gold lost most of its pricing power, it’s other monetary power still keeps it in competition to fiats, as the least volatile commodity in the world and having the highest stock to flow ratio of all.

So what’s the big deal with gold? Gold’s inflation property is determined by physical and social-economic laws, as in laws of the nature/universe, not laws made by man, nor was it voted on by a committee. This means one important arsenal missing in government finance, that is the power to control the issuance of currency and the access to a hidden ‘inflation tax’. This is the central battle that defines the monetary history of the previous century.

If we really have some convictions to a monetary future of freedom, it would be more proper to call bitcoin/peercoin/primecoin cryptocurrency and nubits cryptofiat, to make such distinctions. Though I have no problem with people wanting to call nubits cryptocurrency and bitcoin cryptocommodity, for practical purposes it is indeed true that nubits works better as unit of account in the fiat dominated world. Still one must remember the word ‘cryptocurrency’ has a strong philosophical underpinning born with bitcoin that nubits wouldn’t be able to represent.[/quote]

This post pretty much hits the nail on the head.
Peercoin can just be. The minimum you need to sustain it is some RaspberryPi or other low power devices which consume less than 2 Watts each.

To sustain Bitcoin you need a market where miners can sell the 3,600 BTC that are mined daily (6 block/h * 24 h * 25 BTC/block).
As long as the miners can make a revenue selling those 3,600 BTC, the Bitcoin network is rather safe.
If the promise to make money out of Bitcoin mining fails, Bitcoin is at risk of failing.
The next coinbase reward halving at Bitcoin is in less than one year from now. The expected halving time is July next year: http://bitcoinclock.com/
That date will change due to changes in the hash rate, but the halving will happen.

Here’s an extended reasoning why the next Bitcoin coinbase reward halving will be much different from the last one; some might say Bitcoin survived the last halving without trouble - they might be wrong:

Thanks MoD. I’m looking for some more opinions on this. Then I’d like to spread it around on social media, Reddit, Facebook, Twitter and ultimately r/cryptocurrency where I’m hoping I get a lot of support from people here.

Okay, in the light of these arguments Peercoin makes a whole lot more sense. Thanks for the carefully written post! :slight_smile:

It sound like Peercoin is taking the long road. With that, I mean that the true potential of Peercoin might not come to fruition until the weaknesses of other crypto currencies begin to show. If this is the case, it might explain the drop in price.

Some other crypto currencies have had great influx because they are bringing something new to the table, like anonymous transactions or script execution. I dare to say most people understand the benefits of these features pretty quickly.

If Peercoin’s biggest strength is that is long-term oriented, it could explain why it is not attracting short-term speculators. I guess creating a hype around “Wow, look it’s longer robust” isn’t the easiest selling point.

It sounds like Sunny King was totally right about Peercoin. In Bitcoin the off-blockchain transactions will have to be done on Lightning network. Also the tech this guy I listened to the other week who talked about cryptostash (Chris Odom and Open Transactions), sounds like it would fit perfectly with what Sunny King was talking about for making small transactions possible.

I get all of this.

I find myself nodding in agreement when reading your arguments, but not with everything. Even though Peercoin maybe doesn’t need poker sites adopting it, I don’t see how it could hurt. Even if Peercoin just have to “be”, sooner or later awareness also have to be created. If people don’t know about Peercoin, then how will they be able to use it?

I read something about a marketing fund being dismantled or something? Maybe that was not the right way of doing it anyway. Maybe we who believe in Peercoin should start creating for profit businesses that make use of peercoins. If good products and services are being created and get attention, then that will automatically make people aware of Peercoin. Wouldn’t that be great? I mean, even if it was some kind of betting site or game or something. Or what do you think?

Well the Nu Network issues dividends in Peercoin, but NuShareholders realized early on that it’s going to take a lot more effort before we can safely start sending out Peercoin dividends regularly. Maintining the peg is of the utmost importance, which means we need to be careful what we do with the profit. Reinvesting it back into development is just as important. B&C Exchange could also use Peercoin dividends in the future once multiple dividends are supported. Currently it’s only Bitcoin for B&C.

Peercoin can be sent anywhere in the world at approximately the same speed, while transport of gold creates geographic dissimilarities in the supply (and therefore the price) of gold. In that way, peercoin takes on a more universal worth than gold.

Peercoin rewards participation in a security driven system. The resultant security there (the encryption-based security of crypto as opposed to gold) is a vast benefit over the physical commodity. The inflation-based rewards also provide a reward for adoption, which gives ppc an economic edge over gold as a wealth-storage tool.

Great post. Several questions…

  1. What is meant by energy multiuse in Primecoin?

  2. What is the future of side chains and Peercoin? Is the peecoin community working on any sidechain initiatives? While lightning network may theoretically work with Peercoin, does Peercoin have a proof of concept?

  3. Peercoin still has centralized checkpoints. While the proof of stake security model in Peercoin has for the most part not been attacked, it is not clear what will occur when the centralized checkpoints are removed. Distribution to as large an audience as possible seems quite important to the security model. What is being doing to improve the distribution of Peercoin to a large audience and is there a way to accurately measure the distribution?

  4. Where will the computing power from Bitcoin miners be put to use, once there is no economic incentive to mine anymore?

  5. How does 21inc fit into the long term trajectory of Bitcoin? Now that the “hard” work of securing Bitcoin has been done, how difficult will it be to evolve Bitcoin into one that is centralized by miners, to one that is more decentralized and distributed? Also, why didn’t 21inc choose Peercoin? Or will they eventually target Peercoin?

I do think that peercoin is more secure than bitcoin in terms of decentralization. No doubt about it.
What I am unsure about is whether users will care about that.
If they do not, they will keep on buying bitcoin and sustaining its price, enabling miners to keep on making money, which would sustain a high mining difficulty.
Since E) : price of a commodity = cost of producing it, that would perpetuate a relatively high price.

Bitcoin and Peercoin are both crypto commodities and not crypto currencies. No doubt about that since a very property of a currency is to be stable…

I see Peercoin as a back up of Bitcoin to fulfill the role of crypto gold but I personally do not see Peercoin replacing Bitcoin in that role because

  1. E) makes Peercoin cheap
  2. Bitcoin users do not care so much about its centralization.
  3. I think you can make clones of Peercoin that are very secure, which decreases the scarcity of it in the very first place.

If Peercoin unit price stays very low, it will never be a crypto gold despite the fact that it is very secure.

What Peercoin sparked NuBits via Peershares so that does not change its very important role.

question 1 was about primecoin, answer is: primecoin is using its proof of work alg for finding previously unknown primenumbers, that is what is called energy multiuse, used for securing the network and for science

about 3/4, the distribution in peercoin is done through the old fashioned proof of work mechanism, same as with bitcoin, the distribution doesnt need to be improved imo, it already is pretty optimal, this is also answer to question 4, here is where the computing power of bitcoin miners can still be used to gather peercoins

5, just forget about 21inc

edit: Nu is an example of PoS without checkpoints

I’d appreciate it if nobody spread this around yet. I’m trying to get a comment from Sunny King about whether he agrees with my writing before doing so. I’d rather not spread around my own personal misinterpretations, that is if I’m wrong about all this. If I’m right, then we finally have a better idea of how to market Peercoin.

maxim:
he took the horse passed Istanbul

We have to tell ourselves to investors…
Time is running out
Everything will be finished in 2019

http://t0.com/
http://symbiont.io/

these
footsteps coming to me scary

The confusion regarding the terms ‘currency’ and ‘commodity’ as in ‘cryptocurrency’ and ‘cryptocommodity’ arises in relations to an understanding of the macro views of the monetary system.

In the past when gold was the absolute base money, I guess no one called gold ‘commodity’, but only ‘money’, ‘currency’ etc. Now that gold has been stripped off many of its monetary roles by governments force, it is now widely referred to as ‘commodity’. From user’s point of view it’s about price volatility, it’s understandable as one of the three major functions of money, unit of account, has been stripped from gold and given to fiats, this has made gold look volatile and commodity-esque. Still keep in mind, fiats are also volatile relative to each other, so even though gold lost most of its pricing power, it’s other monetary power still keeps it in competition to fiats, as the least volatile commodity in the world and having the highest stock to flow ratio of all.

So what’s the big deal with gold? Gold’s inflation property is determined by physical and social-economic laws, as in laws of the nature/universe, not laws made by man, nor was it voted on by a committee. This means one important arsenal missing in government finance, that is the power to control the issuance of currency and the access to a hidden ‘inflation tax’. This is the central battle that defines the monetary history of the previous century.

If we really have some convictions to a monetary future of freedom, it would be more proper to call bitcoin/peercoin/primecoin cryptocurrency and nubits cryptofiat, to make such distinctions. Though I have no problem with people wanting to call nubits cryptocurrency and bitcoin cryptocommodity, for practical purposes it is indeed true that nubits works better as unit of account in the fiat dominated world. Still one must remember the word ‘cryptocurrency’ has a strong philosophical underpinning born with bitcoin that nubits wouldn’t be able to represent.

“In the past” referring to which era of human civilization period? I think that one must acknowledge, though issued by whatever evil entities, fiat currencies which are (intended to be) stable in value vs labor produced by the mass, catalyzed economic development as never before

I agree for now with cryptog1.
We will need a gold produced on the satoshi blockchain, in a decentralized way over nodes.
I used to be a fervent peercoin node. What did I stop? Because of the economic incentives were just not there to continue to verify the network on pure PoS. (which I could only did)
At the current price, bitcoin is still a better satoshi gold than peercoin.

Peercoin is more then money…

…but my impression is that the perceived success of a crypto currency is intrinsically tied to the price. Peercoin has had a pretty dull life, free of from community drama (at least it seems so judging by a quick look back on this forum) and has, more importantly, never been failed technically either. Successful forks such as NuBits also proves that the technology is solid and that Proof-of-Stake works.

Key pieces of the puzzle that is still missing, is arguably: mass adoption and higher trending prices. Well, Bitcoin has yet to succeed in achieving mass adoption and price been going down for a long, long time now. In “Bitcoin time” price have been going down “forever”. Blockchain proponents in the banking industry think that Bitcoin is not interesting. Basically, if you would ask my friends or people in the know about Bitcoin, they write off either as a failure or at best an interesting experiment but nothing more then that.

Would you agree with their sentiment? Then perhaps also Peercoin should be written off as an interesting experiment that is doomed to fail?

I look at it differently.

We are right now more then 7 billion people on earth, on track to 8 billion 2024. A quick google search reveals that 2 billion adults are unbanked. By 2018, more then 50% of mobile phones will be smart phones and two year later, a projected 6.1 billion smartphone users globally.

I think it’s safe to say that if billions of people are turned onto Bitcoin, the price of bitcoins will be trading higher then $400. I’m perfectly confident that peercoins will be worth more then $1 which is something like x3 from spot right now, if there is a influx of new users.

But will they use it? Is there anything preventing it, technically speaking?

No. The crypto currency space is fertile ground for innovation and there are now several very smart ways of doing trustless off-blockchain transaction in development. Thanks to innovations such as these, I think its fair to say that crypto currencies can scale up. In a big way. This is also perfectly aligned with how Satoshi reasoned about the future of crypto in his white paper.

But even if they can use it, will they choose to use it?

This is where it gets interesting. I’ve hears somewhere that money was one of our first inventions and actually debt goes pretty far back too. Even future contracts were used ages ago. Aristotle came up with a definition of money, but in truth people have over the centuries been using types of money that does NOT fit Aristotles definition. There is this one thing though, there has to be a prevailing and ubiquitous confidence in the money. If there is no confidence, whatever the current money is, it will stop serving the function of money. Something else will replace it.

Right now neither bitcoins or peercoins are money. I don’t think it’s digital gold either. There is not a prevailing and ubiquitous confidence in these technologies. Save for purchases of illicit stuff, the only reason people are buying into it, is because they think there is a way to make capital gains. It is, generally, speculators speculating on price as if it was a commodity or a share in a start-up or something like that.

I also don’t agree with the notion of peercoins being “digital gold”, because I my opinion it’s closer to “algorithmic” or even “mathematical” gold, the later especially true for primecoins. Arguably an even more accurate definition would be “protocol gold”. But I don’t like the gold metaphor either, because it doesn’t capture even 10% of the true potential of this technology. Gold is tangible and its properties were set by the laws of nature. Peercoin is another thing entirely. The protocol isn’t written in stone, it is made up of information and its properties can change. As long as there is a feedback loop (a community or otherwise) it can adapt to a changing environment and be molded into pretty much what ever it is best used for. It is not a dumb metal. It’s kind of a smart information material. Simply put Peercoin is “smart value”.

For all of the reasons I’ve outlined above, it is way, way to early to know the true price of a peercoin, what Peercoin is, who will use it and what for.

Actually I would like to challenge everyone to think of Peercoin not of what it is today, but what it could be tomorrow and what kids all over the world growing up today, will use it when they are adults.

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if we could predict the future we would be stinkin rich having bought apple stocks a decade ago and bitcoins 5 years ago.

Peercoin shall keep the oldest pos/pow blockchain. The older pow works the more distributed it gets. The no spam fee is in my book a plus.

I do agree development is slow but I stand by the notion that "Trust is hard to earn/win and easy to lose”

The fancy things NXT is doing is nice and all but for the very same reason I dont own any NXT. I want something boring like bonds, not options or futures. IMHO there is value in boring coins such as peercoin.

Now that Sunny has responded to this thread, I’ve gone ahead and posted it to r/cryptocurrency. I’d appreciate your support…

It’s also now available at r/peercoin…