Open transactions

When watching one of those videos about open transactions, my first thought was that the if PPC offers multi sig so that transactions can be facilitated by an open transactions layer that could kind of make the whole “fee structure” thing very much less of an issue. My second thought was that if Ive thought of this, someone else also has. Didnt find anything about it though, so I created an account here so I could ask you guys and girls if you know of such a project: open transactions + PPC?

What video are you referring to? Did you take a look at the peershare initiative? And a multi-sig could be used for an escrow service not sure how the fee structure could be replaced by that?

Found this video educational. It’s about open transactions:

The Open Transactions video was exceptionally interesting. Thanks for posting it.

I was not aware before this of Open Transactions of or Johann Gevers or Chris Odom. But, now I sure am. VERY INTERESTING! And, valuable I would think. (if it works)

I watched the video a couple ot times even though it is pretty long. And then watched another Chris Odom Open Transaction video. Let me briefly try to summarize what I learned:

Open Transactions (OT) is Turing-complete scripting software that is complimentary, not competitive, to blockchain cryptocurrencies. OT concedes that distributed blockchain cryptocurrencies are more resistant to government censorship than OT, but where allowed to exist OT can outperform blockchains. OT is not a currency. OT is a Universal Transaction Platform. OT exists on a pool of servers of which no single server must be trusted. OT can execute smart contracts, all types of financial contracts, multisig and bid/ask exchanges of any complexity. OT can execute high volumes of transcations, extremely fast and extremely economically. OT can be completely anonymous by retaining no records except the most recent signed transaction. Instantaneous micro-payments are possible with OT.

Only when you join or leave OT is a blockchain transaction performed.

No OT exchange currently exists but some were being built when the video was being made.

Sounds to me like OT could solve all kinds blockchain scaling problems!

Also, Instantaneous purchase (transaction) confirmations.

Open Transactions is now definitely on my radar!!!

Wow, that’s Chris Odom aka Lovedrop! I met him before when he lived in Miami, sometime back in 2006 I think. He co-wrote The Mystery Method. He’s a brilliant guy. I had no idea he was involved in this. This is pretty amazing!

As far as I am aware this bounty is still up for grabs and there is some 100 million DVC as well or something crazy… so might be worth looking into if your digging into OT;all


Great to hear that open transactions (OT) catches your interest. I think it fits perfectly with Peercoins and Peershares (see Since Peershares fork Peercoin, I figure that Peershares have multi sig right? If so, Peershares could be traded in OT without the issuance of a mapping currency (or what that could be called) i.e. real peercoins could be traded through contracts.

Yes, Peershares have multi sig.

OT is great because it address biggest(imo) cryptos issues such as scalability and anonymity(Chaumian digital cash), but I’m afraid that due to high level of complexity it’s still quite far from production stage and needs more volunteers for coding and testing.

Here is another video. It was taken during the Miami Bitcoin conference in January…

For more interviews visit and scroll down to “Radio Interviews”.

I would love to see Peercoin and Peershares plugged into OT. I’m not sure I’ve got the skills to do it myself, but I’m more then willing to commit Peercoins for a bounty.

( I posted some questions on )

I logged into #opentransactions @FreeNode and talked to RAM_. I asked about adding support for Peercoin and Peershares and got this reply:

that is one of my high-priority things I'd like to see done also. Not just peercoin but like dozens of alts, basically anything that support multi-sig currently.
but we need the btc integration working first, the core devs are working on it. Specifically, yamamushi is working on that this week
once the first couple blockchain currencies are added, it should be a cookie-cutter task to add more.
I asked RAM_ if OT devs will do it, or if I would have to do it myself.
not sure yet. We'll probably do it, or help you do it ;) .... peercoin is pretty well-known, but there are lots of absure alts, we may not do them all

From what I gather they will do it (FellowTraveller have specifically mentioned Peercoin and Primecoin when talking about these things). If they don’t, I/we should be able to do it. Well… for Peercoin at least.

Peershares I don’t know… I don’t know how OT works, but I guess there will be many different Peershares and I guess there need to be a nice discovery of these. From what I gather chatting with RAM_, adding new coins requires some degree of manual labor. It would be awesome if it was not so.

Does nobody else know who this guy is besides me? He’s a pickup artist, or used to be. I’m not sure if he’s still working with Mystery or not. Anyway, I’ve listened to some of his lectures before and the guy is super intelligent when it comes to evolutionary psychology and things like that. It makes sense that he’s the one behind this project.

I think he’s aware Peercoin is one of the giants in crypto. It sounds to me like they’d implement it.

Open Transactions has been a hot concept for 4 interesting years now.

Not only was OT a hot concept to the most intelligent posters, but it may be of extra interest to Peercoiners and those who appreciate Proof-of-Stake. The mysterious Inventor of Proof-of-Stake, writing under the name “Quantum Mechanic” disappeared from only four days after revealing the Proof-of-Stake concept. In his last Proof-of-Stake related post, he made an “Edit:” and provided a link to Chris Odom’s post on OT (Chris was writing under the pseudoname fellowtraveler).

Here is the link to the original post where Proof-of-Stake was first revealed:

Here is the link to Quantum Mechanic’s last post about Proof-of-Stake which contains a link to a post about OT:


After learning that OT has been an exceptionally hot concept for 4 years now, I became concerned that OT is too complex to achieve. But, the advances continue:

In a Mid 2013 audio interview Chris Odom observed that if two traders wanted to make a trade on a server among possibly hundreds or thousands of potential servers: how would they find each other? Now, Chris has realized that Bitmessage can serve as a peer2peer discovery layer for OT so that using Bitmessage broadcasting traders can now find each other specific to their desired trades. Bitmessage for OT was just recently conceived by Chris last year at the time of the interview, which is linked here:

More recently Chris has been talking about OT with multi-sig utilizing voting pools of servers.

So, we may soon have this giant innovation!

Hopefully everything will work as desired,
and cryptos soon will be off to the races again!!! :slight_smile: :slight_smile: :slight_smile: :slight_smile: :slight_smile: :slight_smile:

May Liberty Prevail…

@NewMoneyEra, wow that’s pretty interesting. I was active on the forums back then, but I didn’t notice that Q.M. stopped posting and never made the connection between PoS and OT. If you are right I have kind of re-discovered what was hiding in plain sight all along.

propaganda rant below. off-topic and uninteresting
What made me first register here at this forum, was that I foresee a coupling between peer-tech and OT. To me the whole thing about Turing complete contracts running on top of a free blockchain, is a broken concept in so many ways. Where as the separation of smart contracts from blockchain based coins and the decentralized nature and the open nature of Peershares makes perfect sense.

I can honestly say that I did not get PoS at first. Not until I re-discovered the tragedy of the commons at my work place (watching people wasting company soap in order to maximize their personal efficiency when doing the dishes), saw the emergence of ASIC pools (rendering the Bitcoin protocol totally subvert-able by armed forces) and thought I understood that while the original Bitcoin protocol is computationally sound, it is not economically sound, i.e. it have economic bugs (like software bugs, but economic ones) and has built in incentives to harm itself.

Another thing i re-discovered was complexity theory and its relationship to the thermodynamic laws. A system, even an economic one, might seem stable but the chaotic nature of the thing tells us that an event, no matter how small it is, might destabilize the system and thereby affect all system dependent on it. It can be very hard predict why it happens and almost impossible to time. Thermodynamic laws tells us that everything comes at a cost, increased entropy. Hence its only natural for self-organizing system to search for efficiency (locally efficient) and my take away from these thoughts are that the financial systems that are not economical will self terminate, expensive systems will detract usage, systems depending on other systems are inherently riskier and well… if you are looking for a store of value (and not short term speculation) you want a something that survives as long as possible.

Now, since most coins and meta-stuffs are derivatives of or on top of the Bitcoin blockchain, that kind of singles out Peercoin (with all its own faults and inefficiencies) as more or less the only viable option with a proven track record. When the other tech starts to implode on itself, it will do so for reasons that Peercoin just might not suffer from.

In light of this, Peershares to me, is good because it is free to use (the same can not be said for many competing tech), not dependent on other techs (besides the dividend being paid out in peercoins) and it is open. If people do what is efficient to them, they will go with Peershares because that option will cost very little. Peershares hosting sites (which I foresee will mushroom, to the despair of people in the peercoin community) wont need big proof-of-work farms, hence they can focus on usability, financial diligence and those things instead. If one hosting site or blockchain goes down or is attacked, the others will be unaffected but can learn from what happens to the targeted one.

Now, combining this with OT will facilitate sharing and discovering of different types of Peershares. The Peershares will pay out dividends in Peercoins that can either be reinvested in new Peershares or be used for minting. From a traders perspective, this is an interest-on-interest thing which creates exponential return (one of the worlds miracles accordingly to Einstein). And the investor gets all of this at a very low cost, ie. high degree of efficiency. People who understand how to leverage this tech to their advantage will benefit greatly and have an incentive to re-invest the profit in it.

One thing I’m a little bit worried about though, it open market intervention by governments. They could just print an unbelievable amount of fiat, buy peercoins to push price higher and then sell to drive down the price and create great volatility. If someone comes up with a fix for that (probable but right now unlikely) issue I would very much like to hear that. Anyway, once again I put my faith on OT because what OT could do is to create a decentralized system that is more efficient and more secure then what the second market Bitcoin fund is (which could be used and I expect will be used for government open market intervention). Hopefully if OT is cheaper and better then the Bitcoin fund thing, people use OT instead and hence less peercoins will be available to the government and their manipulation less effective.

Nothing to see here. Just a mad man raving craziness. Move along…

Awww pillow, you’re giving away all of our secrets. Can’t you publicly state that stuff AFTER Peershares is launched?

What you stated will be perfect for a debate or coindesk article to explain the significance of Peercoin and Peershares.

Right now, it is not important if every one understands the potential of Peercoin and Peershares quite yet. That comes after it is already launched and people are starting to use it.

If you spill the beans too early, you get a lot of other similar technologies trying to eat from your spillage. My vision is a bunch of under-deserving hogs eating at your trough, claiming it’s theirs… [too late at night for me to think of a better way of saying this]…

Hopefully, you get the idea.

By the way, I hereby pronounce you thoughtful scholar, and nominate you for the non-existent Board of Directors. We need more of your kind around here. :slight_smile:

Nothing to see here. Just a mad man raving craziness. Move along...

That’s the best kind of raving :slight_smile:

Excellent synopsis of the current technical and market landscapes, and I, like ppcman, are thrilled to have you as a contributor to the community. It doesn’t seem like I need to encourage you, because you’re doing a great job by as it is, but keep coming up with thoughts like this to stimulate and challenge the community. Discussions on topics like this are a reason that I have the confidence that I in the Peercoin community.

Edit: Broken “quote” tag

[quote=“ppcman, post:17, topic:2002”][…]
If you spill the beans too early, you get a lot of other similar technologies trying to eat from your spillage. My vision is a bunch of under-deserving hogs eating at your trough, claiming it’s theirs… [too late at night for me to think of a better way of saying this]…

Please don’t get me wrong on this…
But even though I’d like to have a sophisticated implementation of Peershares I don’t fear others trying to develop similar concepts.

The Peershare project is funded to cover several man-years of work, has enlightened developers (just to mention Jordan Lee, who invented the whole thing) and it’s process is quite far.

So we really shouldn’t be afraid of others trying to contribute to the crypto coin concept.
And just imagine there’d really be a different project even more successful and valuable - wouldn’t that be great?

This whole thing is about evolution, new thoughts, fine tuning, ironing mistakes out etc.

It has practically started with Bitcoin (because all previous attempts have failed).
Peercoin itself is based on Bitcoin, but has advanced the idea.
Now Peershares is on the way to advance the Peercoin idea.

Would it really be bad to have a different name/project for the next improvement (although I doubt Peershares can be overtaken given the head start)?

Oh, I do at this particular stage, for sure… This is not because I don’t like good and healthy competition, because I do. What I dislike is horrible competition that just confuses the cryptopopulation and drains investment into poorly thought out ideas.

Take one idea: Proof-of-stake

Sunny King was the first to implement it, and now every click-and-create “overkill coin” that adds proof-of-stake claims how much better their coin is… then they pump it, dump it, and abandon it. Cycle, and repeat. Now the importance of PoS has slightly less meaning as a new or novel concept due to the bastardization of bad implementations of it.

(If you watch the overkillcoin video, watch when the magnet comes out at 0:0:16 - 0:0:20 seconds)

Luckily though, Peercoin has already launched, and can be used as a reference on a proper implementation, so PoS is not dead. It was first to market, and still holding strong.

Now with Peershares we need the same thing. First to market with its innovative concepts. Then let the copycats show up after we’re live and have a proof-of-concept already launched.

I’m just saying that there is a preferred time to divulge this stuff, and we’re close to it. May be once Peershares is live on testnet?