Thireus raises some good points. Perhaps I can distill this into a simple question: Will NeuCoin be competing with Peercoin for market share?
Distribution is a non-trivial problem in PoS. Any new PoS forks have to compete against Peercoin’s three year of distribution of the coin with PoW and trading. A tall order - and Neucoin’s strategy of a huge pre-mine and then giving coins away free does not strike me as an elegant solution to that problem.
While I’m personally not interested, I wish you well, and appreciate you advancing the PoS cause.
You seem to be 3 very busy individuals (Koubiac, Dan Kaufman and Sandrine), who are heavily involved in PoS-crypto and you have found one bug in the PPC-code.
Now what’s the market value of 3 very engaged community members in a cryptocurrency, one of them (Koubiac) with the potential to be core developper. Looking at the market cap of alts, I would say you are bringing a value to crypto of lets say $0.5 million. This would be 1/10th of Peercoin marketcap.
Compare for example with Novacoin which has 1 very active developer (Balthazar), a website/blockexplorer manager (penek) and a moderately active Russian community. It has $0.5 million market cap likewise.
Ok you secured a lot of funding from some angel investors and you put it into ads on coinmarketcap and coindesk etc.
This doubles your value to $1 million.
Now you are Pre-selling Neucoin for $0.01 per coin. There will be 3 billion Neucoin initially.
Lets do the math:
That is a market cap of $30 million. The pre-sale is overpriced by a factor of 30.
But hey, we are getting 3-5% breadcrumbs for free!
If I was you, I would spare the breadcrumbs, but offer 10x more coins in the presale for a price per coin at least 10 times lower.
[quote=“Thireus, post:4, topic:3463”]Fist of all, thank you for this generous offer and for your work on Proof-of-Stake which is greatly appreciated by our community. You shared with us a useful security analysis of PoS, and these security improvements that you highlighted will be addressed in our next release.
Peercoin is a direct fork of Bitcoin but is also the first PoS crypto coin. A lot of PoS alt coins are forks of PPC (more than 50 crypto coins) and rely on its source code and logic. Which makes Peercoin a strong baseline for what Proof-of-Stake in crypto currencies means. Unfortunately Peercoin is also far from receiving the support and contribution it deserves from these forks. Which in my opinion is mainly due to the greed of alt developers and contributors (developing a “better” coin means more investors, and thus more profit).
I think most of the active people on this forum (those who still remain after this massive crypto market crash) are loyal to Peercoin and understand that the roots of the crypto tree are vital and need to remain strong (BTC, PPC, LTC, etc.). Especially when hundreds of alts are created every year, all forks of these roots, or even worse… of the leaves.
My personal opinion on the topic is that we can’t keep creating alts forever. The market is now very weak, and alts are less and less innovative. The main contributions that forks are bringing today is to weaken the crypto market and spread the general contribution (developers, marketing, investors).
For the perspective of alt developers/investors, I understand that there is still a big marketshare to eat, especially when the alt being developed sounds promising and has a strong marketing team. But the result will often remain the same, alt developers and early adopters may earn a lot of money from that classic “pump and dump” scheme but the coin won’t survive adoption because it is not innovative (or that its changes could be addressed in the root crypto coin it was forked from).
If your purpose is to make a sustainable coin today, start from scratch and bring innovation. The Ethereum project is in my opinion a wise example of what can be a good success.
My last few words will be for my Peercoiner fellows: Peercoin’s price may go low, but the innovation will remain. Stay strong and smart, Peercoin hasn’t said its last word yet.[/quote]
Hi Thireus.
Thanks for your response. We respect your point of view, but we have a totally different vision of what will lead to success in the marketplace.
We think cryptocurrency is the greatest invention since the Internet itself, with enormous potential, but for all its buzz and media attention, crypto has gone virtually nowhere in terms of mainstream adoption in the six long years since the birth of Bitcoin. From a consumer perspective, it’s niche and techy and inaccessible to regular folks and honestly doesn’t yet have any killer apps that regular consumers care about. It’s a niche phenomenon that’s smaller than even the most moderately successful app or website.
We believe that PoW mining/coin distribution has been the main showstopper. And that PoS has the power to change this. Because the true genius of PoS is that it allows for the use of coin distribution as a strategic tool for growth and adoption.
And that’s what NeuCoin is about – harnessing the power of secure PoS technology to facilitate growth and adoption.
So, innovation can take many forms. And while NeuCoin has and will continue to put a lot of resources into our enabling secure PoS technology, the innovations that we believe will have even more bearing on growth and adoption are:
-
Strategic distribution. If you look at NeuCoin’s growth-driven distribution model, it incentivizes early adopters to help increase the utility and value of the coin. Instead of just giving coins to miners, who most of the time sell them right away, NeuCoin will be strategically distributed to reward and incentivize all participants who help increase its utility and value: a small amount to consumers for trying it out, some to early investors for providing initial funding, more to companies that build useful applications and ecosystem services, to exchanges, payment processors and merchants that accept micropayments in NeuCoin – and potentially some to early adopters with PoS experience like the Peercoin community, depending of course on whether they want it or not (Bitshares and NXT do). In addition, the NeuCoin foundations will use the proceeds from coin sales to directly fund projects that increase the utility (micropayment platforms, super easy online wallet, etc) and consumer reach (marketing, freemium coins to consumers and referrers) of NeuCoin, which in turn increases the value and utility of NeuCoin.
-
Rewarding early adopters. Tied to the above is the fact that people who get in early on NeuCoin - who help create the first core of users and holders - will be highly rewarded for adding this value. NeuCoin’s economic model uses very high PoS awards, starting at 100% per year in year one, 80% in year two and gradually declining to 6% by year ten, meaning that coin holdings will multiply by up to 50X over 10 years with non-stop PoS mining.
-
Easy and consumer-friendly. For consumers to want a cryptocurrency, it has to be easy and fun and well-marketed. Think Candy Crush or Viber. Mainstream. But saying “easy” is easy, the trick is that it really also has to offer mainstream consumers something new to do that they can’t do better with traditional payment methods. Something fun and sticky that will make them come back for more. That’s why NeuCoin is developing platforms for micropayments – which is a new behavior that hasn’t been possible before - and we already have major premium content partners in place (again, made possible by our distribution model)
-
Freemium strategy. The “freemium” strategy, so successfully used by our investors and advisors at Candy Crush, Spotify, etc, is key to consumer adoption. Having a distribution structure that allows you to give out a few for free to consumers to try out the micropayment platforms with zero friction. After they have a good experience, they might come back for more.
-
Transparency and governance.
For all this to work, governance, trust and transparency are all critical. The crypto world is held back by the shadier parts of its history. This is hindering mainstream acceptance and adoption. That’s why we have set up a structure where NeuCoin will be open, accountable and ultimately controlled by coin holders. NeuCoin’s core code development, user growth programs, and projects to increase utility will be supported by three non-profit foundations based in Isle of Man: the Code, Growth and Utility foundations. All foundations are ultimately controlled by NeuCoin holders (1 NeuCoin = 1 vote), who have the power to hire, fire and set compensation for the foundations’ Council Members, and have a right of approval on annual budgets, spending priorities, etc. -
An experienced team and high caliber investors and advisors. There’s lots to do and you need resources and dedicated, full time people with good rolodexes to get it done. NeuCoin’s founding team has built multiple companies with millions of users in the music, gaming and shopping sectors - hundreds of millions of users in total. Our strategic advisors include the Head of Growth at Spotify, the co-founder and Chief Architect of King (Candy Crush Saga), the creator of Dogecoin, the core developer of Peercoin and a board member of the Bitcoin Foundation. We also have $2.25 million of initial funding from founders and strategic angels, including the co-founder of King (Candy Crush Saga), Head of Growth at Facebook, SVP of Business at Uber, President of Hotwire, Producers of American Idol and X-factor and dozens more high caliber investors who can help NeuCoin forge strategic partnerships and drive consumer adoption.
This is obviously very summarized, not to bore this forum to death, but we describe all this in a lot more detail in the “Strategic Plan” on neucoin.org. It’s a complex formula with many components, but it’s all about incentivizing growth and adoption so that crypto can break out and free the world.
well, we’re a little bit more than 3…
NeuCoin was created by an experienced team of entrepreneurs, developers and marketers, along with a committed group of designers, security consultants, public relations and legal advisors. NeuCoin’s founders previously created five consumer internet companies – in the music, games and shopping fields – that each reached many millions of consumers.
Daniel Kaufman, Co-Founder, Strategy
Serial entrepreneur for 22 years, active investor in technology ventures and real estate. Magna cum laude BA in Political Economy from Williams College, awarded the Sloan Fellowship in Political Economy and named the “Class of 1960” Economics Scholar. Dan founded:
Dash, Time Magazine’s “Internet’s Best Shopping Tool” in 1999 and raised $51 million
DirectRevenue, an online contextual advertising company that partnered with music and gaming companies to acquire a user base of 150 million and reached $40 million of annual revenue
Jango, a top 5 US Internet radio service with over 20 million registered users and 8 million monthly listeners
Cable TV networks in Azerbaijan and Armenia, a management consulting company specializing in digital content and communications, a real estate portfolio of over 1,000 apartments, and many others.
Johan Sandstrom, Co-Founder, Marketing and Communications
19 years of experience as an entrepreneur and creative executive in online media, marketing and entertainment. Summa cum laude BA in Political Science from Stockholm University. Co-founder (with Dan) and CMO of Jango. Co-founder and EVP of Spray Network, a top 5 European portal, employing 700 people in nine countries, and sold to Lycos Europe for $572 million. Film producing credits include Kill Your Darlings, starring Alexander Skarsgard and John Savage, selected for Tribeca Film Festival and distributed by Sony Pictures.
Ophélie Pubellier, Co-Founder, Technology
Ophélie discovered and started mining Bitcoin back in 2011. As an executive and consultant, she has helped several French tech companies with software development, system architecture and network engineering, including Iliad, a leading French telco group and Typhon and Stockho Hosting, two hosting and outsourcing services groups. Ophélie graduated from 42 and EPITECH, a top European Computer Science school.
Scott Walker, Co-Founder, Business Development and Marketing
An entrepreneur and investor in tech, media and advertising for 20 years, Scott made early investments in Bitcoin mining operations with partner Brock Pierce. Also a founding partner of Crypto Currency Partners, with investments including Kraken, BitFury, Xapo, Bitgo, Ethereum. Scott co-founded:
New Motion, Inc, a mobile entertainment company where Scott also served as CEO, which was eventually merged with Traffix, Inc in 2007, and culminated in a combined public entity known as Atrinsic (NASDAQ: ATRN), with over 200 employees and revenues of over $130MM per year
Mindset Interactive, an advertising software company which was sold to BroadSpring in 2004, Inc after having achieved over $10MM in annual revenue.
Net Page Communications, an ISP which was sold to Net Guard Technologies in 1997
Sandrine Ayral, Head of Community
Previously a member of Coinbase remote team, covering news related to Bitcoin on TechCrunch and Rude Baguette. Business development for a Parisian startup, EasyLife Pack, part of the founding team of TheFamily, a startup accelerator, worked for a Parisian VC fund, advised over 10+ startups with their business development and fundraising strategies at Le Camping, another accelerator. Graduated from ESSEC, a top French Business School with a specialization in Corporate Finance.
Mark Bridges, Business Development and Marketing
After a 13-year corporate career in Asia and North America in finance, consumer tech and manufacturing, with senior positions at Swire Pacific, Honeywell and Johnson Matthey, Mark has spent the past 12 years investing and working with tech and media startups in Hong Kong, Canada and France. Focusing on business development and marketing, Mark’s recent engagements include Exicon, GreenOwl Mobile and SPIDEO. BA Honors in Asian Studies and Economics from Trinity College.
Kourosh Davarpanah, Evangelist
Co-founded a logistics startup in Paris that received seed funding from French serial entrepreneur and billionaire Xavier Niel. Former mergers-and-acquisitions analyst at Lazard Frères. Graduated from Columbia University and Ecole Polytechnique (France’s leading engineering school).
Maël Nison, Core Coin Developer
Maël has worked with several innovative startups and most notably Sketchfab, a TechStars-backed web company. He graduated from EPITECH, a top European Computer Science school, where he also taught C and C++. In his spare time, he works on various open source projects such as Virtjs, a javascript emulation library.
Ludovic Pouvreau, Back-end Developer
A former member of French telco giant Iliad’s web development team. Graduated from EPITECH, a top European Computer Science school. Ludovic has been involved in several technological projects at his school and also taught the theory and practice of C, C++ and ASM.
Alexandra Grasland, Front-end Developer and Designer
Alexandra has worked as a front end developer for a number of French companies, including the job board start-up Keework, hardware developer Freebox, media giant Vivendi and educational group Ionis. Alexandra graduated from EPITECH, a top European Computer Science school, where she was also an assistant teacher in C, PHP, SQL and Unix System.
Strategic Advisors
Alex Norstrom
Vice President of Growth, Spotify
Jackson Palmer
Creator of Dogecoin
Brock Pierce
Serial entrepreneur and Bitcoin Foundation board member
Patrik Stymne
Co-Founder and Chief Architect, King (Candy Crush Saga)
Michaël Witrant
Peercoin Core Developer
Strategic Angels
NeuCoin’s Strategic Angels include several top tech, media and VC executives and entrepreneurs who have founded a number of successful consumer Internet companies that have sold for $100 million plus. Invited to invest based on their ability to forge partnerships and help drive consumer adoption, the Strategic Angels saw the potential for a freemium, consumer-friendly coin to reach consumers on a large scale.
Josh Abram
Co-founder, Co-CEO, Neuehouse, premier co-working/hospitality provider valued at $180M; previously founder, Dstillery, ad tech firm with $100M annual revenues, Integral Ad Sciences, ad tech firm with $50M annual revenues.
Markus Alderback
Founder and CEO of leading booking software MrOrange, MrJet (acquired by Ebookers/Orbitz), founder of Jetweb, Jetset, Trippa, Badoo, and many more.
Olga Bartnicki
CRO of LiveAuctioneers; previously founded Livelook (acquired by Oracle); former VP Allen & Co.
Henrik Dahlback
Investor and corporate finance advisor, former Director of Leveraged Finance at Merrill Lynch; previously Morgan Stanley Dean Witter.
Michael Daun
Founder/CEO of game developer Wellevue. Founder and former CEO of cloud-based viral video marketing platform Incloode. Co-founder of the Spray group, including pan-European interactive agency network Spray, which merged with Razorfish and listed on NASDAQ as the world’s largest interactive services firm with an eventual $5B valuation, and Spray Network (pan-European portal sold to Lycos Europe for $572M). Board member of marketing services software developer Wendia International and real-time video software company Arkaos.
Anders Ehrenblad
Partner, Graviton Investment & Capital Advisers, an investment and corporate finance firm. Founder and former investment manager of tech/energy VC fund Alpha One. Board member of Maha Energy, RF Coverage, Eu-Supply Holdings, Widespace, PiaCare and Debitech.
Josh Engroff
Managing Partner at KBS+ Ventures, Chief Digital Media Officer at the Media Kitchen, previously VP of Billboard.
Bill and Gideon Friedman
Real estate investors owning over $1B of assets; Bill was previously founder and CEO of Tarragon Corporation.
David Frykman
Private equity investor in property, internet and retail. Board member of fashion brand Acne Jeans, Sweden’s leading insurance broker Insplanet, online grocery retailer Matsmart.
Rob Goldman
Head of Growth at Facebook (responsible for “ads in your timeline”); formerly Founder of Swaylo (acquired by Facebook); previously General Manager of Shopping.com.
Toby Gorman
Producer of top television shows American Idol, Hollywood Game Night, The Winner Is, Celebrity Family Feud and Britain’s Missing Top Model.
Pal Hodann
Private equity investor, material holdings in leading HR software company GlobeSoft and publicly traded packaging company Fasty, board member of publicly traded global communications consultancy Intellecta.
Michael Hudgins
Managing Director & Global Strategist, EII Capital Management; previously Executive Director, JPMorgan investment management; VP - Strategic Planning, Lend Lease.
Nicholas Högberg
CEO, Swedish subsidiary of 3 (Three), the world’s largest 3G mobile operator with 27 million customers. Chairman of online ad production platform Bannerflow, 2013 Swedish “Telecom manager of the year” award, former CEO Vodafone Stores Sweden and CEO Campuz Mobile.
Johan Ihrfelt
Founder and CEO, renewable energy conglomerate OX2; co-founder of the Spray group, including pan-European interactive agency network Spray, which merged with Razorfish (where Johan was also EVP) and listed on NASDAQ as the world’s largest interactive services firm with an eventual $5B valuation, and Spray Network (pan-European portal sold to Lycos Europe for $572M), where Johan also served as CEO.
Henrik Kjellberg
President of Hotwire, Chairman of eLong (Nasdaq-traded leading Chinese travel company), former President and VP positions at Expedia.
David Lerner
Professor of Entrepreneurship, Columbia University Graduate School of Business; Director, Columbia University Entrepreneurship; Director, Venture Lab, Columbia University Technology Ventures; previously founded several health care and technology ventures.
Ori Mace
CEO of leading web agency Acne Digital, founder and former Chief Creative Officer of leading Swedish web agency Starsky, acquired by top ad agency network McCann.
Adam McNicol
Founding partner of Fintan Partners, hedge fund with over $1B of assets; previously Founder of AM Wealth Management.
Emil Michael
SVP of Business at Uber; previously COO Klout, Senior Vice President, Tellme Networks, Special Assistant to the US Secretary of Defense, Investment Banking Associate, Goldman Sachs.
Alan Murray
Co-founder, Co-CEO, Neuehouse, premier co-working/hospitality provider valued at $180M; previously founder, Dstillery, ad tech firm with $100M annual revenues, Integral Ad Sciences, ad tech firm with $50M annual revenues.
Henrik Hancke Nielsen
Executive Producer at FremantleMedia North America, one of the world’s largest TV production companies, shows include X-Factor, The Apprentice, the Idol and Got Talent franchises, The Price Is Right, and Family Feud.
David Perez
Co-founder of Convertro, an online marketing optimization platform sold to AOL for $101M; previously founded numerous online marketing and online dating companies.
Tom Phillips
CEO of Dstillery, leading ad technology firm; previously Director of Search and Analytics, Google; CEO of Deja.com; President ESPN Internet Ventures; Founder/CEO of Spy Magazine.
Ted Rogers
Chief Strategy Officer, XAPO (Bitcoin wallet that has received $40M of VC capital); previously, co-founder, general partner of Arpex Capital; co-founder Vidavee, sold to Vignette.
Daniel Sachs
CEO of investment company Proventus. Awarded “Young Global Leader” at World Economic Forum in Davos. Chairman of Nordic Broadcasting Oy, Artek, Tom Dixon, Royal Swedish Dramatic Theatre. Member of the European Council on Foreign Relations and the Advisory Boards of Sotheby’s and Maiyet.
Christophe Salanon
Managing Director of online dating service Meetic ($440M IPO in 2005, acquired by IAC for $489M in 2011); Co-founder of group buying site Groupolitan, sold to Rossel, Belgium’s largest media group. Board member of Viadeo, Vinogusto, Forecastis.
Richard Silen
Partner at Alipes, private equity company controlled by IKEA founder Ingvar Kamprad.
Calle Sjoenell
Chief Creative Officer, top advertising agency Lowe Brindfors; previously Chief Creative Officer at Ogilvy & Mather New York, world top 5 ad agency network. Ex Creative Director of top agencies BBH and Fallon.
Bjorn Soderstrom
Co-founder and former CEO of Mediaplanet North America and Conversionplanet, leading content marketing company with 400 employees in 15 countries. Founder and Exec Chairman of Rchery, startup mobile direct marketing platform.
Patrik Stymne
Co-founder and Chief Architect, King.com, NASDAQ-traded leading mobile game developer (Candy Crush Saga, largest game developer on Facebook, $4.5B valuation); co-founder of the Spray group, including pan-European interactive agency network Spray, which merged with Razorfish and listed on NASDAQ as the world’s largest interactive services firm with an eventual $5B valuation, and Spray Network, a pan-European portal sold to Lycos Europe for $572M.
Jonas Svensson
Owner of MondoMedia, YouTube’s number one animation channel. Chairman of Talent Inc. Co-founder of the Spray group, including pan-European interactive agency network Spray, which merged with Razorfish (where Jonas also served as EVP and Vice Chairman) and listed on NASDAQ as the world’s largest interactive services firm with an eventual $5B valuation, and Spray Network (pan-European portal sold to Lycos Europe for $572M); co-founder of Lovefilm, the Netflix of Europe, acquired by Amazon. Former owner and board member of Hyper Island, former Chairman of Acne.
Per Zachariassen
Producer of top television shows X-Factor, Eurovision Song Contest 2014, Talent and many more.
I have absolutely NO interest in receiving any Neucoin and agree wholeheartedly with the comments Thireus made above. The creation of hundreds of crypto clones every year is completely unnecessary and continues to weaken us all in terms of community/developer support, etc… As you can see from Sunny’s recent update, he’s already considering the security enhancements detailed in your whitepaper. It wasn’t necessary to create a brand new coin to improve security. All it took was talking about your concerns with the existing community. I think you’ll end up finding that most of the people here are incredibly loyal to Sunny King and Peercoin and realize the importance of supporting the originator of proof-of-stake (the root as Thireus calls it), rather than yet another clone coin. Please get back to us when you’re willing to work with us, rather than against us.
Edit: The name dropping doesn’t impress me either.
Why do you continue to parade Mike’s name around like this? It confuses people and I’m sure it has hurt Mike’s reputation with some that may have gotten the wrong idea. As far as I’m aware, all Mike did was answer some questions of yours about potential attacks. I don’t think that qualifies him as your technical advisor. Has he given you permission to use his name constantly like this in promotions?
In fact, it’s actually incredibly insulting. What I see here is a bunch of millionaires that think they can get together and rip off the work of everyone in this community. Sunny King is a genius and has spent the past 4-5 years building Peercoin and proof-of-stake from the ground up and you all think that you can just get a bunch of money together, rip off his hard work and bypass him.
I hate to break it to you but your huge list of names is incomplete without Sunny King. Sunny has built an incredible reputation by being the inventor of proof-of-stake consensus and his slow, but careful and security minded approach to development has gained him a massive amount of trust and respect throughout the crypto community. You’re basically trying to take Sunny King and everything we’ve ever done here and replace us all with a bunch of marketers with lots of funding at their disposal. As long as you DON’T have Sunny King on your team, your project doesn’t have the needed level of reputation and trust and parading Sigmike’s name around in your advertising like he’s actually on your team isn’t fooling anyone. It makes me wonder how many other name drops in that list are just that, loose associations.
Maybe I’m out of line with my rant here, but this whole thing is sickening to me and I don’t want to have anything to do with it. If the founders of this project decide instead to work WITH Peercoin and Sunny King directly, rather than creating another clone and working AGAINST us, then maybe I’ll feel differently about this whole thing. Right now though, it feels as if you’re attempting to steal Sunny’s work and give him the shaft. No thanks. I will continue to remain loyal to Sunny King.
Edit 2: If I had to put my feelings on this into video format, it would be this clip from the movie Spiderman. Substitute Norman Osborne with Sunny King. The Neucoin people are played by the board/shareholders.
[quote=“Ötzi, post:7, topic:3463”]Now you are Pre-selling Neucoin for $0.01 per coin. There will be 3 billion Neucoin initially.
Lets do the math:
That is a market cap of $30 million. The pre-sale is overpriced by a factor of 30.
But hey, we are getting 3-5% breadcrumbs for free!
If I was you, I would spare the breadcrumbs, but offer 10x more coins in the presale for a price per coin at least 10 times lower.[/quote]
It is in fact far more than 3 billions coins that will available in the next 10 years but rather 50 x 3 = 150 billions. Read below:
EDIT: NeuCoin will be a “minting mandatory” coin unless you want to see your holded value divided by 50 in less than ten years. Needless to say that I hope they have some kind of cold minting implemented.
IMO the only 100% fair way to distribute a coin is by many years of PoW inflation.
(Merged my additional comments into my post above)
If you airdropped 100% of a new PoS coin in 1-to-1 proportion to a snapshot of bitcoin holdings, that would fit this model even if the new coin were not PoW. Just saying. 
I failed to see any major or substantial innovation in Neucoin. I am not interested either.
Long time lurker and follower of the Peercoin community chiming in here.
The NeuCoin project is the embodiment of the core problem with PoS - The lack of economic scarcity. If you can acquire a large enough user base the coin can be replicated and distributed to them, instantly becoming a more secure network.
It is hard to argue that the NeuCoin distribution plan isn’t a fantastic way to distribute a PoS coin such that it can start a path towards mainstream adoption. PoS is a game of getting and keeping users. The competition feels like traditional social networks competing for users. WhatsApp was worth $19B because of it’s users. The NeuCoin advisors have the connections and experience with traditional startups like this and will be very good at bringing PoS to the world.
A year ago I was frustrated with the lack of marketing and attention being paid to Peercoin. After sticking around for a while it is clear that this has so far been a good thing. Peercoin is meant to be a backbone system. It is not a transactional currency. Merchant adoption provides very little long term benefit to the vision that Sunny has in mind.
The ecosystem is now maturing the point where we can start to think seriously about “mainstream”. NeuCoin shows ups, formalizes a bunch of existing arguments while providing some original thought, and wants to position itself as the savior of PoS.
I’m skeptical of NeuCoin because it is currency focused rather than data focused. Also, the whole vibe of it all seems to be stuck in the mindset of launching a successful startup company. I don’t really see any long term vision and enthusiasm about this platform revolutionizing the way people interact online. To be blunt, I don’t think you guys could hold a candle to the ethereum team.
Sunny King is a thought leader in the incentives and technicals of cryptocurrency and proof of stake. He is interested in making a sustainable backbone protocol and has proved that he is a forced to be reckoned with. He is likely working on sidechains. Is this even something on the minds of the NeuCoin team?
That said, he needs to speak up soon or me and many others will lose all hope in Peercoin.
That’s all for now I guess. Cheers.
Thanks, but no thanks.
[quote=“NuBoats, post:16, topic:3463”]Long time lurker and follower of the Peercoin community chiming in here.
The NeuCoin project is the embodiment of the core problem with PoS - The lack of economic scarcity. If you can acquire a large enough user base the coin can be replicated and distributed to them, instantly becoming a more secure network.
It is hard to argue that the NeuCoin distribution plan isn’t a fantastic way to distribute a PoS coin such that it can start a path towards mainstream adoption. PoS is a game of getting and keeping users. The competition feels like traditional social networks competing for users. WhatsApp was worth $19B because of it’s users. The NeuCoin advisors have the connections and experience with traditional startups like this and will be very good at bringing PoS to the world.
A year ago I was frustrated with the lack of marketing and attention being paid to Peercoin. After sticking around for a while it is clear that this has so far been a good thing. Peercoin is meant to be a backbone system. It is not a transactional currency. Merchant adoption provides very little long term benefit to the vision that Sunny has in mind.
The ecosystem is now maturing the point where we can start to think seriously about “mainstream”. NeuCoin shows ups, formalizes a bunch of existing arguments while providing some original thought, and wants to position itself as the savior of PoS.
I’m skeptical of NeuCoin because it is currency focused rather than data focused. Also, the whole vibe of it all seems to be stuck in the mindset of launching a successful startup company. I don’t really see any long term vision and enthusiasm about this platform revolutionizing the way people interact online. To be blunt, I don’t think you guys could hold a candle to the ethereum team.
Sunny King is a thought leader in the incentives and technicals of cryptocurrency and proof of stake. He is interested in making a sustainable backbone protocol and has proved that he is a forced to be reckoned with. He is likely working on sidechains. Is this even something on the minds of the NeuCoin team?
That said, he needs to speak up soon or me and many others will lose all hope in Peercoin.
That’s all for now I guess. Cheers.[/quote]
Sunny called it a backbone currency. Here you call it a backbone system/protocol. Are you able to explain the difference? You also mention data focused vs currency focused. I’m always interested in hearing what people think Sunny means when he calls Peercoin a backbone currency. It seems many people don’t understand it.
[quote=“Sentinelrv, post:18, topic:3463”][quote=“NuBoats, post:16, topic:3463”]Long time lurker and follower of the Peercoin community chiming in here.
The NeuCoin project is the embodiment of the core problem with PoS - The lack of economic scarcity. If you can acquire a large enough user base the coin can be replicated and distributed to them, instantly becoming a more secure network.
It is hard to argue that the NeuCoin distribution plan isn’t a fantastic way to distribute a PoS coin such that it can start a path towards mainstream adoption. PoS is a game of getting and keeping users. The competition feels like traditional social networks competing for users. WhatsApp was worth $19B because of it’s users. The NeuCoin advisors have the connections and experience with traditional startups like this and will be very good at bringing PoS to the world.
A year ago I was frustrated with the lack of marketing and attention being paid to Peercoin. After sticking around for a while it is clear that this has so far been a good thing. Peercoin is meant to be a backbone system. It is not a transactional currency. Merchant adoption provides very little long term benefit to the vision that Sunny has in mind.
The ecosystem is now maturing the point where we can start to think seriously about “mainstream”. NeuCoin shows ups, formalizes a bunch of existing arguments while providing some original thought, and wants to position itself as the savior of PoS.
I’m skeptical of NeuCoin because it is currency focused rather than data focused. Also, the whole vibe of it all seems to be stuck in the mindset of launching a successful startup company. I don’t really see any long term vision and enthusiasm about this platform revolutionizing the way people interact online. To be blunt, I don’t think you guys could hold a candle to the ethereum team.
Sunny King is a thought leader in the incentives and technicals of cryptocurrency and proof of stake. He is interested in making a sustainable backbone protocol and has proved that he is a forced to be reckoned with. He is likely working on sidechains. Is this even something on the minds of the NeuCoin team?
That said, he needs to speak up soon or me and many others will lose all hope in Peercoin.
That’s all for now I guess. Cheers.[/quote]
Sunny called it a backbone currency. Here you call it a backbone system/protocol. Are you able to explain the difference? You also mention data focused vs currency focused. I’m always interested in hearing what people think Sunny means when he calls Peercoin a backbone currency. It seems many people don’t understand it.[/quote]
The difference there is probably just semantics. Maybe when Sunny introduced the “backbone” concept he needed to speak in terms that the Bitcoin community was used to. Or maybe not.
I guess that saying that Peercoin is not currency focused doesn’t mean it isn’t “value” focused or “asset” focused. The data structure and use base has value. A currency is a low hanging fruit in a tree of ideas, and IMO isn’t going to be the most impactful application.
Emeth’s peermessage project is relevant. It seems that Sunny really has attracted developers who think deeply about the big picture and carefully plan each step of long term plans.
PeerCoin the PRECIOUS ONE thanks but no thanks I will keep my green in the PEER MACHINE 8)
Sunny King the Root Master keeping the Tree ALIVE
#PeerCoinHoneyBadger
I agree that the distribution can be seen as a weakness in Pos. A facebook pos coin could overnight have airdropped coins over its user base and presto we have a ‘fair’ distribution and off we go.
I dare to counter argue with: remember Google Buzz? Overnight users were forced to buzz each other iso of tweets.
The difference is that twitter’s user base grew naturally whereas buzz account were force upon.
Guess who is still around and whos not…
OK, SO ALL IN ALL, YOU LOVE THE PROPOSAL ;D
This was like walking into a Liverpool bar wearing a Manchester t-shirt!
Seriously, we think collaboration is the way to go. Seems obvious looking at btc’s market cap versus all pos coins put together (and at this constant BTC casino banner ad on peercointalk).
We started this thread to suggest one idea. Not sure why it is so much less popular here than with BTS and NXT, but so be it. Moving on…
We’re still interested in finding things to do that are WIN WIN.
[quote=“Dan Kaufman, post:22, topic:3463”]OK, SO ALL IN ALL, YOU LOVE THE PROPOSAL ;D
This was like walking into a Liverpool bar wearing a Manchester t-shirt!
Seriously, we think collaboration is the way to go. Seems obvious looking at btc’s market cap versus all pos coins put together (and at this constant BTC casino banner ad on peercointalk).
We started this thread to suggest one idea. Not sure why it is so much less popular here than with BTS and NXT, but so be it. Moving on…
We’re still interested in finding things to do that are WIN WIN.[/quote]
May be the users here are not as greedy as those of BTS and NXT 
By the way, it looks like your Neucoin holdings value will be divided by 50 if you don’t mint your coins in the 10 coming years:
Will Neucoin allow cold minting? Do you have any Peerbox equivalent solution available? Or are users supposed to leave their PC on all the time with their wallet opened?
Hi everyone!
Coming back on Sentinelrv’s answer to Dan’s post, as it reflects the sentiment conveyed through other posts: our goal is not to work against you, but to engage with you not just on PoS security (as we’ve been doing thanks to our technical white paper), but also on PoS currency distribution mechanism.
NeuCoin’s key differentiator is to have a consumer approach from the first day it launches - so that any mainstream consumer can use it, and actually wants to use it. This approach is enabled mainly by our distribution model - which itself is supported by NeuCoin’s implementation of PoS. We are indeed forking Peercoin and are grateful for Sunny King’s and this community’s work - and have never been dismissing it.
Having a consumer approach means the following:
[ul][li]Designing an easy-to-use cryptocurrency[/li]
[li]Developing true utility for NeuCoin, making it more useful than existing payment methods on specific use cases - we chose to focus on micropayments[/li]
[li]Being able to fund user acquisition: marketing, as well as a freemium strategy[/li][/ul]
These three elements - NeuCoin’s ease-of-use, utility development and user acquisition strategy - are entirely financed by its premine. This is why our strategy can only be implemented by creating a new cryptocurrency, not on top of an existing pos coin with a different distribution mechanism.
To quickly go back on the numbers: at inception, there will be 3 billion premined NeuCoins. 2.4 billion NeuCoins will be donated to three non-profit foundations which will use them either to fund core code, utility development or user acquisition.
These 2.4 billion NeuCoins will be distributed the following way over time:
- Some given for free to consumers to try using NeuCoin and for recruiting other users
- Some distributed to companies that make NeuCoin useful: content providers that accept micropayments in NeuCoin, exchanges, payment processors, wallets, etc.
- Some sold to investors, with proceeds used to fund code development, user acquisition, and projects to further develop utility, with a focus on micropayments
The premine held by the Foundations enables: - The funding of NeuCoin’s utility: it will fund the development of applications and micropayment platforms that increase the utility of the currency and thus its value. With our model, we’re able to strongly incentivize the adoption of NeuCoin.
- NeuCoin’s freemium approach. The premine will enable us to give a few NeuCoins for free to mainstream consumers and to implement a freemium approach. If you consider Bitcoin, this is one of our key differentiators: there’s absolutely no way today for a mainstream consumer who knows nothing about bitcoin to try it out and benefit from its advantages in a frictionless fashion. One has to go through so many steps before becoming a bitcoin user, that it is highly unlikely one will ever try it, let alone start using it.
Our plan can only be implemented with a cryptocurrency with a “clean slate”: since our strategy is fully supported by our distribution mechanism, we can’t apply it to a cryptocurrency which has already been created and whose distribution plan is already designed.
Looking forward to getting your feedback on this!