[quote=“RobertLloyd, post:17, topic:3195”]Pillow - I don’t see how illegality or registration comes into this. It is not a proposition to trade/invest with money, but with digital tokens. So long as everything is above board, it lies outside the law’s concern
The only time authorities need to be informed is when people cash out - if in profit, capital gains tax may apply[/quote]
I want the endeavor be properly done from the get go, so that if there is more regulations, there wont be any problems.
When I was managing other peoples money, I realized that people are insanely greedy. At several times people were basically throwing money at me. I realized right there and then, that when you manage other peoples money, you will also have to manage their greed and… their fear and possibly anger.
So I also want to cover my own ass. If the whole thing blows up, which isn’t that unlikely, I want people to not be able to threaten me with legal actions (saying it was a fly by night, illegal, ponzi or worse), which I’m certain would happen if things soured.
[quote=“Ben, post:20, topic:3195”]Pillow, I’m working through the steps required to incorporate a business on the Isle of Man right now and will be happy to share the information that I’ve accumulated. They are very friendly to digital currency businesses and their financial systems/regulations and tax schemes are all structured to be pro-business.
I’ll pull my notes together and send you the details.[/quote]
Ben, I can’t tell you how amazing that would be! ;D
What could happen here I think is that people could do one of two things:
Buy Peershares for themselves. Any potential profit could be kept by the shareholders or voluntarily donated to Peer4commit.
Buy Peershares and donate them to Pillow. Any profit from these donated Peershares would be transferred by Pillow to a Peer4commit page. We could then have rules similar to the marketing fund in order for that money to be spent on projects.
Re: Peer4Commit; if there is a value to the firm/fund to publicly support digital currency software projects (or other types of work) my advice would be to have the firm set aside some amount of its own profits - after shareholders have been paid out - and the use those as a seed to find the donations or grants. That way, the firm/fund gets the marketing benefit of being a sponsor for projects without having to worry about affecting participants adversely.
As the firm/fund grows in size and assuming it is successful, it’s own profits will correspondingly increase.
Let me ask something. If this were to become a reality, would this literally be the world’s first decentralized investment fund? If so, that would be a pretty big deal. I’m not sure if anyone else has made anything similar yet.
I’m following this with much interest. Although this is not a decentralised investment fund, only the tokens/assets in it are decentralised. The fund is clearly centrally led (small team) which is not necessarily a bad thing, but trust in these people is required (just like any other investment fund). As pillow mentioned I don’t see an easy way to manage such a fund decentralised. It would require a high number of bots with different feeds to inform the bots on what to buy and what to sell. I don’t think those algorithms and data exist in such a form that it is usable.
I’m following this with much interest. Although this is not a decentralised investment fund, only the tokens/assets in it are decentralised. The fund is clearly centrally led (small team) which is not necessarily a bad thing, but trust in these people is required (just like any other investment fund). As pillow mentioned I don’t see an easy way to manage such a fund decentralised. It would require a high number of bots with different feeds to inform the bots on what to buy and what to sell. I don’t think those algorithms and data exist in such a form that it is usable.[/quote]
Yes, you’re right about this. So it’s partly decentralized then. That’s still pretty significant in my opinion though.
I remember when NuBits released, thExit posted in chat a lot and talked to Pillow. I believe I remember him saying he ran something similar to this, although his method of trading was different from pillow. I believe he said his trading wasn’t based on predictions. I checked and he was last online Dec 18th. Just an option for somebody to contact to see if they’re interested in helping out.
Yes there are several reasons why I would want to avoid creating a DAC by distributing information to bots. On a purely technical note bots are likely to introduce “state specific issues” which are notoriously difficult to manage when recovering from issues (programmers will probably nod when reading this). But there are also issues related to financial attackts, which perhaps are not obvious. I’m gonna explain it here, just because its fun
If everyone who had shares also had a bot, then those could be controlled via remote procedure calls. That would open up the following attack vector. First the attacker buy enough shares to get a bot. Then the attacker look at what levels the bot will sell and buy. Next the attacker either front-run the bots or simply dump price to trigger stoplosses. Just as simple as that.
There are loads of other kinds of issues related to DAC’s as well. I think the fundamental issue here is that a DAC is really good at handling issues related to central points of failure. In prop trading, centralizing decision making is key to success. The whole idea is that the members pay a single entity a fee, because that single entity is better at managing money then those who own the shares. Sounds unlikely? In my opinion, yes it is unlikely. Most fund managers are simply just doing “what everyone else is doing” to avoid underperforming index, yet when you take the fee’s into account, many many funds are either that, or leveraged to the hilt and blows up when there is big market corrections (not unheard of because they are doubling down to recover on losses - which is a fallacy).
So why would I do any better “than everyone else”? Yes, that’s a very good question.
I talked to a friend yesterday about the “impossibility of running an investment fund DAC” and believe he suggested that perhaps it would be possible anyway. During our conversation an idea of a “half-like-DAC” was thrown out.
The idea was was that the shareholders every once in a while, makes a vote on who should be doing the trading/investing. That way the money manager would not be running the fund, but instead be kind of “employed” by the shareholders. If the fund manager would be doing a poor job, he/she/it would loose the job and someone else would have to take over the responsibility. The shareholders could also vote to liquidate all of the shares.
Its clear who is accountable to the shareholders for doing a poor job managing the funds.
Its totally unclear who is running the DAC, because it is decentralized and in many ways autonomous (shares in the company would likely be traded on exchanges).
I’ve not thought this one through, but it might solve some of the legal implications of running an unregulated fund.
If I were an investor I wouldn’t care if it is a DAC or not. In fact I wouldn’t be interested in risking real money doing a fund DAC experiment.
I want to see peershares used to support a real-world business, where the business case is sound but the fund-raising and dividends distribution pose problems that peershares could solve.
To make this happen I will need an established trackrecord to show people/investors/etc Im worth it. I will dedicate 2015 to this fully . Will be updating the myth thread and check pm every once in a while. Whish me luck (though I hope to prove it’s got nothing to do with it ;))See you in 2016.
I fear they are not good enough and think I need to be able to cough up something much much better than that.
[quote=“kschneezy, post:36, topic:3195”]Does this mean we can expect more posts on r/PeercoinMarkets? I hope so…
Always enjoy reading your discussions and trades in the peercoin chat as well[/quote]
Thanks a lot kschneezy. ;D
I’ve not thought about that. If it fits the “schedule” I will. I need to keep updated on Peercoin adoption and stuff like that. I’m not promising anything though.
Good luck anyway, but have you considered working with someone who does have a track record? That might speed up things a bit.
I think the kind of fund you are proposing will be good for PPC liquidity and marketing of the ecosystem. Those are the things we need imo.
I have the same thoughts. There are a lot of people with good trading skills but don’t know the specific advantage of peercoin. pillow could be the interface or an investment manager similar to Cybnate and River333’s role in the PR department.
Yes. Actually I would also have preferred to work in a small team, but as it turns out I’ve had great difficulties finding someone that is a successful trader and someone I can trust. Probably because my network is to small. I’m self-taught and rarely, if never, talk to other traders.
I guess the intersection of these two already small sets, it super tiny :)).
